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Council of Elrond • View topic - First CoE erratum; ideas

First CoE erratum; ideas

Moderator: Thorsten the Traveller

Re: First CoE erratum; ideas

Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:48 pm

Ok so now that we're clear on the issue, Mikko: please write an erratum proposal we can present, including the original rule, the new rule, and a brief explanation of why we make this proposal, ruleswise.
I'd like to announce the proposal at Lure.
I will setup the presentation then UEP style.
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Re: First CoE erratum; ideas

Postby miguel » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:15 am

How's this?
-----------------------------------------------------------

Original rules

CRF: Turn Sequence Rulings: Site Phase: Automatic-attacks:
The only resources you may play against automatic-attacks are ones that cancel the attack, cancel a strike, or would be otherwise playable during the strike sequence.

Balrog Rules: Specific Rules for MEBA: Cards with Multiple Actions (Clarification):
...As an exception, if one of the effects of a card is an attack, cards may be played that cancel the attack, cancel one of the strikes, or that otherwise are playable during the strike sequence.

CRF: Rulings by Term: Timing wrote:# Annotation 24:
If a card specifies that more than one action occurs when the card itself is resolved in a chain of effects, all of these actions are to be resolved in the card's chain of effects uninterrupted and in the order listed on the card. No actions may be declared to occur between these multiple actions. The actions listed on the card are considered to have been declared in the reverse order as they are printed.
# (amendment to original version of Annotation 24): As an exception, if one of the effects of a card is an attack, cards may be played that cancel the attack, cancel one of its strikes, or that otherwise are playable during the strike sequence--see Annotation 18 (Turn Sequence, Movement/ Hazard Phase, Combat, Strike Sequence).


Rules amendment proposal


When facing an automatic-attack, you may play resources that directly affect the attack or would otherwise be playable during the strike sequence. Same applies for facing attacks created by cards with multiple actions.


Considerations

The original rules differ from facing other kinds of attacks (e.g. creatures, event cards with one action). With the proposed rules amendment we want to achieve a more consistent, intuitive way of facing all attacks. It is also more lax than the original rules and will open up some new options and strategies for players to utilize, leading to a more varied and enjoyable gaming experience.

Our proposal is actually a modified version of what is already present in the CRF: A company may not play any resource during the site phase until they have faced all automatic-attacks, unless that resource directly affects an automatic-attack. However this passage has not been implemented due to the other, more strict automatic-attack rule. For consistency's sake we wish to extend this more lax approach into facing attacks from cards with multiple actions as well.
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Re: First CoE erratum; ideas

Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:18 pm

excellent.
- should we call it amendment? or simply "new rule." Yes it's an amendment, but the original text is not really recognizable anymore.

- should we include the clarification part: "removing an aa does not constitute affecting an aa?" No it does not directly concern this rules change, but it is important and something many people might not realise.
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Re: First CoE erratum; ideas

Postby Khamul the Easterling » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:52 pm

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Re: First CoE erratum; ideas

Postby miguel » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:31 pm

"New rule" is fine if you want to call it that.

I didn't include that "removing an aa..." part because it's a separate entry in the CRF. Naturally I plan to combine it with the new rule for the URD, but if you think it should be mentioned here, feel free to edit that in.

Making a comprehensive list is a bit tricky, because you would be able to play some cards in a limited manner only (e.g. Marvels Told). Traditionally things like this have been decided on a case-by-case basis, and I'd prefer to keep it that way at least for now.

@Eric: Please make the prints you need at Lure, my bag is full! :lol:
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Re: First CoE erratum; ideas

Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:55 pm

Well the list need not be complete, but an example could clarify it a bit for those who have no precise idea what the change would result in. Like a before and after...

I'll print the proposal for Lure, but the voting is done online anyway, so it's just to raise some awareness.
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Re: First CoE erratum; ideas

Postby miguel » Sun May 13, 2012 3:33 pm

Example 1: A hero company decides to enter Dead Marshes with The Moon Is Dead in play. The player has Marvels Told in hand.
Before: Marvels Told may not be played at this point and the company must face boosted undeads twice.
After: A sage taps to play Marvels Told on The Moon Is Dead, and the company proceeds to face only the normal automatic-attack.

Example 2: Fallen-Gandalf is by himself at the Lonely Mountain. The player has Ruse and Wizard's Staff in hand.
Before: Ruse may only be used to cancel the automatic-attack, tapping Gandalf and denying him the item.
After: Gandalf may use Ruse's scout only effect, slipping past the attack untapped and getting to play his Staff.

Example 3: A minion company with a shadow-magic using character is at Edoras and plays Smoke on the Wind. They face the first attack, leaving only one character untapped. The second attack is 1 strike with 10 prowess and the player has Sojourn in Shadows in hand.
Before: The untapped character faces the strike and failing to stay untapped Smoke's marshalling points are lost.
After: The shadow-magic using character may play Sojourn on the untapped character, letting him avoid the strike and tap for Smoke MPs afterwards.
Last edited by miguel on Sat May 26, 2012 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First CoE erratum; ideas

Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Fri May 18, 2012 11:12 am

Ok, pretty solid examples,
I´ll work the thing out this weekend into the first proposal and do a test-run with a poll at a new board section. If it works, we'll send out a newsletter to inform people so they can vote.
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Re: First CoE erratum; ideas

Postby Khamul the Easterling » Wed May 23, 2012 6:50 pm

Good example, I think players, esp. non-experts, will greatly profit from these. Well done!
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