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Council of Elrond • View topic - What Sauron considers ok changes.

What Sauron considers ok changes.

Moderator: Thorsten the Traveller

Re: What Sauron considers ok changes.

Postby thorondor » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:39 pm

virtual cards was only about single cards, but no rules changes.

and imo for new players Virtual is even more complicated that "normal" MECCG. a new players hates errata, and vitual cards is a sort of adding a lot to the errata list.
what i am dreaming of when i hear New Age MECCG is making the game easy to access for new players.
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Re: What Sauron considers ok changes.

Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:48 pm

Virtual cards is/was an attempt to revive the tournament scene and/or meta-game by introducing cards, thus avoiding the need to introduce new rules.
Why haven't they caught on? Two reasons (I noticed talking with people at event like Lure, if they had heard of Virtuals at all):
1) until they are official I'm not going to put effort into learning them.
2) I don't want any new cards, I like knowing exactly what to expect.

So, the dilemma remains exactly the same...

@making a simplified rules game. Well, you would not get me back to the GO table with simplified rules, and if it doesn't change anything for the experienced player, then that's still not good enough.
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Re: What Sauron considers ok changes.

Postby Frodo » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:30 pm

RE: NEW AGE RULE SET
I also got excited when I saw Sauron's question, "Why not make Classic MeCCG Ruleset and NewAge MeCCG rule set?"

Thorsten asked an important follow-up question about whether ICE had actually thought about creating a new rule set for the game, and two different ways to play it, the classic, original way and the new way. I thought this was something us veterans already knew about? The answer is "Yes!"

Right before the eye of ICE went belly (cornea?)-up, their rulesmeister, Craig Ichabod, was granted one last task: rewrite all of MECCG into a simpler but still strategic version. And he did--partly. He created something called "LORE". One change was that there was no longer "minds"--all characters essentially had the same mind that equaled their MP value. I guess ICE thought it was too much unneeded math, so now Mind/MP ranged only from 3 to zero. Another change, a huge change, was that there was no longer a chain-of-effects. (!) I remember writing Craig a very long email about this, complaining that it hurt the strategy greatly, and Craig defended this, saying it was the single biggest obstacle to new players wanting to play competitively--not understanding this chain-of-effects.

As far as whether ICE envisioned two types of playing fields, a "classic" and a "new age", I'm not sure. I think they did, but it may be that they simply were going to allow the old cards to be used in tournament decks, but their texts/rules would be superceded by the new age cards.

There were many other changes. In fact... I still have the original, unofficial document that Craig created, his first draft, because he emailed it to me. I could post it somewhere if we like.

Okay, this is a scary (and exciting) idea, but are we really considering doing the big "rewrite"? Ben's URD was the first step--we must understand the rules at present--and a total rewrite would be the second step. It is also an important step, based on my "Saving the Game" document's argument. However, such a rewrite would mostly serve the needs of new players--and we cannot PRETEND to do this unless we face an even more pressing obstacle, which is the absence of card product to buy. I will put it more bluntly: why rewrite the game if we can't produce the game? We might as well just streamline the game's current rules in order to keep loyalty to current players and attract SOME new players.

That being said, perhaps there are ways to "produce" more of this game, especially digitally, that would still be within the realms of legality.

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Re: What Sauron considers ok changes.

Postby Bandobras Took » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:56 am

I did a simplified chain of effects rule for my rewrite in the General Section.

Not only are chains of effects hard to understand, they also have an often detrimental effect on the game. Between that and ICE's completely arbitrary use of the words "action" and "effect," I'd have to agree with Craig on that one. :)

But as far as "new" and "classic" rules . . . as long as the classic rules are upheld as the One Game To Rule Them All, products which branch off of it really have no chance of gaining widespread recognition. Else Virtuals would have supplanted the normal game on the tournament scene, which it did not.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

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Re: What Sauron considers ok changes.

Postby miguel » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:44 am

meccgnetrep (at) gmail (dot) com
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Re: What Sauron considers ok changes.

Postby Bandobras Took » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:27 pm

I'll second that sentiment. :)
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards .
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Re: What Sauron considers ok changes.

Postby thorondor » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:00 pm

here is a copy of this document.
i had a look into it back then an di remember that there was a lot i didnt like very much ...
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Re: What Sauron considers ok changes.

Postby Jose-san » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:02 am

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Re: What Sauron considers ok changes.

Postby thorondor » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:54 am

joe also mentioned the existence of the so-called LORE rules. well, i also got that document showing what some players have been pondering about ...
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