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Council of Elrond • View topic - Erratum Proposal: Blind/Ire and Ring Tests

Erratum Proposal: Blind/Ire and Ring Tests

Moderator: Thorsten the Traveller

Re: Erratum Proposal: Blind/Ire and Ring Tests

Postby Bandobras Took » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:25 pm

I've played FW Dunk in a tournament. I'm speaking from personal experience, not theorycraft. I'm able to dunk without Blind/Ire in the picture (not guaranteed to do so, merely able). The benefits over Hero dunk are being able to draw on a broader spectrum of characters, no need to go to Mordor, and no forced corruption check/ally requirement for victory.

I did mean to write tournament game; I apologize for the confusion.

And it isn't a small chance. Any intelligent player (which are the kind you normally find in tournaments) will see the gold ring type and sideboard accordingly. What player wouldn't have three copies of that in their anti-FW sideboard? When they know that they can guarantee at least a turn of delay (and that's all that's required in a tournament setting, which is what we're talking about here), why aren't they going to save them in their hand?

And that is a fundamental point. I'm not talking about casual games here. I'm talking about an imbalance in tournament settings, which is the purview of the CoE. People will call in four turns. Sometimes three. A dunk deck has to be approximately as fast. FW dunk, like minion dunk, does not allow you to win on the same turn you get the ring out. You need at least one turn more after you successfully test the ring. If testing the ring takes an extra turn, which Blind/Ire inevitably force, that's too much. It doesn't hold up in a tournament, which is the issue at hand.

Assuming that opposing players won't make the right play is fallacious. If I could guarantee I'd face nothing but idiots in a tournament setting, I'd win, but that wouldn't mean there isn't a basic problem with the card in question.

The riddling comparison is not apt. It's indisputably impossible for minions to riddle, but there is no problem here because they have alternate methods for scoring 6 TPs in a given tournament. Saruman, Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando do not have the possibility to score 7 TPs so long as Blind/Ire can cancel the ring tests.

Which means the assumption that I'm talking about Fallen Saruman is also not apt. There are four avatars with this problem. The fact that I prefer one of them has no bearing other than that I actually have experience with attempting to dunk in a tournament setting and overcoming Blind/Ire with the FW alignment, which puts me far ahead, so far as I can tell, of most of the people posting in this thread.

"Rhetoric," indeed.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards .
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Re: Erratum Proposal: Blind/Ire and Ring Tests

Postby Logain » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:07 am

I agree with other people here that priority is making errata for game breakers or cards that go against the theme of the game.

Making an errata to make one (or more) deck archetype more viable in a tournament setting could be nice, to get more variety in games, why not.
But the objective must not be to make a dunk deck competitive in one deck games, otherwise all players will play that deck.

FW dunck sucks, they have the hardest setting : ring roll with -1, hero cards limited to x2 so only 2 wizard's tests, and on top of that you can just lose to the "A New Ringlord" test or while squatting at a ruins and lair. Balrog & dc dunk cards are better, as you get a bonus after each card for the following test, and your avatar can squat at a haven.
Ire & Blind are on top of that, sure, but opponent has still to side and play them on time. He might get them after you test a ring. You might cycle your testing cards faster. I think your gaming group knows you well and mechanically side those cards while against you.

There are many ways to improve FW dunck playability, ignoring Ire & Blind on ring test is not the solution, i prefer something else.
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Re: Erratum Proposal: Blind/Ire and Ring Tests

Postby Bandobras Took » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:03 pm

I have absolutely no problem with dunk not being viable so long as one doesn't get extra points in a tournament for dunking. Otherwise, there's a discrepancy in possible points per alignment.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards .
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