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Council of Elrond • View topic - Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Moderators: Vastor Peredhil, Thorsten the Traveller, Vastor's Dreamers

Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Postby dirhaval » Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:45 am

I was wondering if those balrog events can be played on Mines of Angurath including
Breach the Hold, Invade Their Domain, Lord and Usurper, and A New Domain.

True, this site is not a surface site, but it is a dwarf-hold.
So can these cards be played on this site in anyway.
I like to make the site a haven playing Breach, Invade, Lord, and New.

Can someone explain this to me? Thank you!
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Re: Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Postby Vastor Peredhil » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:45 am

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Re: Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Postby dirhaval » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:55 pm

Oh my goodness. Thank you Vastor.
Alas, I did not think "An Evil Fortune" was at all pertinent to the "quest" since its picture
is similar to Descendance. I thought both were the same. Rotten eggs.
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Re: Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:52 pm

seems like someone should have gotten a dcff set in hands, we were way ahead of you :-)
yes Balrogs can invade Dwarf-holds with an adjacent Under-deeps site, using An Evil Hour (and not any other way). Thus this card is a sideboard must.

tests showed Mines of Angurath were in fact too easily invaded by a Balrog in Flame of Udun fána, thus we made it harder for him to enter alone.
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Re: Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Postby dirhaval » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:25 am

Okay. I am no reconfused with these cards.
Please help.

I like to make the Mines into a darkhaven. Roots of the Earth do not work since the shadow-hold cannot change type.

So, is this the plan:
Play An Evil Fortune,
Play Breach the Hold on an adjacent site such as Under-Courts or Limestone caverns, then
Play Invade Their Domain on Mines
Play Lord and Usurper on Mines
Play A New Domain on Mines

I am making the Durlach deck and it is harder than month-old cram to get that balrog moving for usefulness.
But its fun.
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Re: Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Postby Vastor Peredhil » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:59 am

Hi William,

so yes my mistake you need to breach the entry from either one of its under-deep sites indeed
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Re: Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Postby dirhaval » Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:43 pm

Okay. Great. I agree.

I was thinking that the alternative use for An Evil Fortune was to allow Breach the Hold
to be played on the same site such as Mines for these reasons:
1.the breach is not coming from an adjacent site, but at the site,
2. only breach the hold out of this list of events keeps a site in play permanently, so it is okay to keep Mines in play permanently since it is an under-deeps site
and not a site such as Iron Hills that is worth a great deal more as a darkhaven and kept in play permanently,
3. prevents the use of cancellers such as Orc Quarrels or Crept Along Carefully to cancel
the AA of the host site. In the other case a revisit to the Mines means facing a nasty dwarf AA again without these common cancellers.

Just my thoughts.
Thank you.
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Re: Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:24 pm

Yes but Mines of Angurath is just 1 example of an Under-deeps Dwarfhold (the other would be a Deep Mountain Fortress). But the number of surface site Dwarfholds is bigger: Moria, Mount Gundabad, Carn Dum, Dol Guldur, Nurunkhizdin, Barak-shatur, etc. And there we like the similarity with Invade Their Domain.

Moreover I don't like the keeping in play of your Invade site so easily, you get 9 MP there so leave a Maggot behind to guard the site if you please !
btw. Caverns Unchoked also keeps an UD site in play, so if you must, there are other ways.

And on the upside, Angurath is a bit of a dead end, so now you can play stuff at Under-courts (some Whip or Stabbing Tongue which you can use to pump up your Hog) and still return that way.
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Re: Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Postby dirhaval » Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:51 pm

Great insight about Caverns Unchoked.

Again, I am still in MECCG speech. When I read about "dwarf-hold" I was thinking about sites with a dwarf AA only.
Umm.. maybe Durlach should Invade Carn Dum?
Thank you for the clarity.
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Re: Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Postby dirhaval » Wed Nov 26, 2014 1:36 am

I see that the hidden site cost for the Mines is tapping an avatar or sage to REVEAL the site.
So, I will go ahead and play Roots of the Earth then Breach the Hold on Limestone Caverns
to avoid paying the cost when visiting Mines for the invasion. Limestone Caverns will
stay in play as a darkhaven with 0 for the roll between the sites.
Caverns Unchoked will be played on the Mines.
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Re: Mines of Angurath and Balrog Haven Events

Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:31 pm

You are correct, a Dwarf-hold needs a Dwarf automatic or a Dwarf faction normally playable.
So Carn Dûm etc. are possible Dwarf-holds, not actual Dwarf-holds. They are Ancient Dwarf-ruin, which means that Dwarf-lords can turn them into Dwarf-holds by claiming the site (Return to Old Dwellings) and then starting a Mining Settlement. If that happens, the Balrog can easily Invade.

Yes the hidden site requirement is for getting the site in play. As a Flame of Udun is the only character in the company, we thought this fitting to make it somewhat more difficult to raid Angurath. It either takes a turn, or an untapping mechanism, or Lost Knowledge (Maker's Map, Secret Book).

Ok Limestone Caverns offers a possibility for Roots of the Earth, still seems like an unnecessary detour. At Undercourts one can play Descent Through Fire and Breach the Hold, that's good turn management. But if you don't go as Flame of Udun, perhaps your option is wise.
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