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Council of Elrond • View topic - Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Bandobras Took » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:42 am

So far as I know, no.
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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Konrad Klar » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:43 am

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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Bandobras Took » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:37 pm

Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

You probably aren't playing Fallen Wizards .
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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Konrad Klar » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:08 pm

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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Bandobras Took » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:32 pm

Probably because the Wind Throne was part of MELE. :)
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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Konrad Klar » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:11 pm

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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Bandobras Took » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:02 am

The region containing the new site is listed on the new site. Whether the site exists for the hazard player isn't quite relevant, as it's always been the resource player's site, as much as possible, that is used to determine such things, and the resource player cannot, under normal circumstances, move to a site that does not exist for them.

The question of No Escape/Elves of Lindon is the reason I very much favor using the resource player's perspective despite the CRF entry for hazard agent movement. If there is no site where the faction is playable, there can't be a region containing that site. For hero alignment, there is a site where the faction is playable. For minion alignment, there is not.

This makes no consistent thematic sense, obviously, but that's never stopped this game before. :)

An alternative method for determining such things is on a card-by-card basis, by determining whether a card asks whether something is allowed or disallowed.

For No Escape/Trouble, it asks whether there is at least one instance where play of a faction is allowed at a site in the region. If so, effect.

For a card such as Here, There, or Yonder, it looks for an instance where something is not allowed. If so, no action.

I'm not sure if that causes more or less confusion when determining how the cards affect the game, though.
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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Konrad Klar » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:35 am

So, according to you:
1. For playing a rescue site in the same region as region containing a new site, it is not obstacle that for hazard player the new site does not exist. He can acquire information about region that contains the new site from resource player's copy.
2. If Grey Havens is not in version that a player could use, the Grey Havens does not exist for him, and in consequence Lindon does not contain Grey Havens for him, and in consequence Lindon does not contain for him a site where Elves of Lindon is playable.
In result No Escape from My Magic on Elves of Lindon does not affect this player.
Whether other player's copy of Grey Havens is in play, or not does not matter.

Right?
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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Bandobras Took » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:13 pm

That's what I've been arguing, but the conversation has convinced me that any decision on how to play it is going to have complications and difficulties.
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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Konrad Klar » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:15 pm

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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Bandobras Took » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:30 pm

There's an excellent point.

However, I do think there is a difference when discussing where a resource may be played at vs. whether a resource has an effect. I cannot play War-Wolf at Wizardhaven White Towers simply because my opponent's White Towers is a Ruins & Lairs with a wolf auto-attack.

Trouble looks for "a site where the faction is playable." That now seems to me to suggest that any player's site will do if the faction is playable there.

No Escape looks for "the site" where the faction is playable. That suggest to me that unless a player's site matches the site where the faction was played precisely, they are not affected.
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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Konrad Klar » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:53 pm

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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Konrad Klar » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:11 pm

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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Bandobras Took » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:19 pm

I just don't know if the region contains all those things for a given player.
Remember, NetRep rulings are official. This does not necessarily mean they are correct.

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Re: Are there any Ruins&Lairs in Forochel?

Postby Konrad Klar » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:54 pm

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