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Council of Elrond • View topic - Adunaphel Unleashed

Adunaphel Unleashed

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Adunaphel Unleashed

Postby Bandobras Took » Thu May 22, 2008 12:57 am

Marcos and I talked about this a bit, and the additional tapping ability isn't too exciting for Adunaphel for the following reasons:

1) The basic trouble involved in moving to an opponent's site;
2) If you have an active RW, you want them to DO something during the site phase, but Adunaphel is notoriously vulnerable to Rivers, Lost in Free-Domains, etc, so you're wasting your RWs movement to try and tap two characters outside of the site phase, so there's no chance to influence them or attack them;
3) Your opponent's characters are extremely likely to be tapped. If they are already tapped, they cannot be tapped, and the clause "may not untap" will not apply to them.

After bouncing out a few ideas, Marcos and I thought of this one:

Adunaphel Unleashed

Short Event or Permanent Event

As a short event, untap Adunaphel. As a permanent event, one target male character may be in a company with Adunaphel. May also be played on an opponent's male character -- make a roll and add target character's CPs. If the result is greater than his mind, he joins Adunaphel's company, and all cards controlled by him may be transferred to other characters in his former company. May not be duplicated, but may be transferred.

We thought Middle Earth deserved a Seductress, that active Adunaphel would be both jealous and fickle with her men, and that the tapping two opponent's characters was of too little practical use.

Or, as I put it, "STEAL Aragorn from that Elven wench!" :)
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Postby marcos » Thu May 22, 2008 1:28 am

"cannot be duplicated as a permanent event"

i guess you will still want to untap her after you got her boy :lol:
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Postby Bandobras Took » Thu May 22, 2008 1:35 am

Oh, right. :)
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Postby Frodo » Thu May 22, 2008 6:45 am

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Thu May 22, 2008 10:22 am

Hmm, it's one thing for ICE to invent some nazgul siren, it's another to start stealing key characters, thematically this is really mambo jambo, the wraiths only invoke fear and dread, not love, no matter how you play the harp. A nazgul playing a harp, just the thought alone is utterly rediculous.

But, let's go with the idea. Then I'd suggest: a man/dunadan male character (or lesbian, like Peath), becomes a follower of Aduni (if we can bend the rules once more) rather than char in comp., and a flattery attempt: cp's/stage plus roll (minus 2 for dunadan) greater than mind plus something or gi.

or perhaps, a seduction roll: you must sing a song and the tourney judge or players on another table must award you points. :wink:

can we not just take out the tap requirement for Aduni? I like this card's effect actually.
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Postby Jambo » Thu May 22, 2008 12:15 pm

Whilst we're berrating Adunaphel's inability to circumvent Rivers and Lost in Free Domains, it's worth remembering that Adunaphel Unleashed's alternative use doesn't actually require the site phase...

I must admit I'm not overly convinced on the alignment switching proposal. It's a bit heavy on the fantasy. Adunaphel as Wraith isn't going to be doing much luring.

I perhaps wouldn't mind a more attractive (pardon the pun) additional use for this card, but maybe it could be less seductress-like? ;)

What about Adunaphel can initiate CvCC or influence a faction, ally, etc, during the end of turn phase?
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Postby Bandobras Took » Thu May 22, 2008 1:26 pm

He heard himself crying out: Never, never! Or was it: Verily I come, I come to you? --LotR II

While it's a given that RWs aren't attractive and inspire fear, they are also devotees of their master's philosophy of dominating and breaking minds.

@Frodo
Why should elves be immune? The key factor is the strength of will of the target. What is there about Orophin that makes him less vulnerable than Aragorn?

Since the roll requires it to be greater than a character's mind, Avatars are already immune. You can't have a roll greater than an attribute that doesn't exist any more than you can win a race that hasn't been held yet.

The idea of him leaving behind the cards he controls is more of a gameplay/balance thing: if you can already screw your opponent out of a character, you're doing them sufficient damage.

If you make it an influence check, she'll still need some way of doing it during the site phase unless we follow Jambo's suggestion of making her able to do it outside the site phase.

Even if doing it to the opponent's character comes to naught (to bad, stealing Buth from the Balrog would be kind of fun, too), I'd still like the ability for her to choose one specific man to travel around with her.
Last edited by Bandobras Took on Thu May 22, 2008 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Thu May 22, 2008 1:44 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Thu May 22, 2008 2:11 pm

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Postby Frodo » Thu May 22, 2008 6:16 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Thu May 22, 2008 6:51 pm

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Postby Frodo » Thu May 22, 2008 6:55 pm

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Thu May 22, 2008 8:30 pm

like I said, the fact that ICE envisions some luring female nazgul, doesn't mean it would actually exist in Tolkiens world. Anyway, if there is no opposite-sex enchantment involved somehow, why would it only appeal to men? Does a ringwraith even have a gender? Galadriel btw is no slave to Sauron. Nuff said, this is all pure fantasy.

Difference between killing and stealing is big if you can choose who you're stealing, if you can avoid combat, if you have to make two rolls to succeed. :wink:
If you make him part of comp. rather than RW follower, he can exist outside of RW company I suppose. So I would make him RW follower like other RW's. Or do we think you have to accomodate the 9 mind of Aragorn after you've lured him? even stranger.
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Postby Bandobras Took » Thu May 22, 2008 8:58 pm

Ah, but this argument "doesn't mean it would actually exist" can be applied to approximately 95% of the Middle Earth stuff, starting with five uncorrupted wizards.

Galadriel may not have been a servant of Sauron, but she sure didn't go back with the rest of the elves to Valinor until after she had proven herself by foreswearing the Ring.

With the Wizards, there was a clear way to give each of them a theme based on either the books or the Valar. For gameplay reasons, you want a separate theme for each Nazgul, but such territory is largely unexplored; we read that they were kings of men, great sorcerers, but not much else. In the name of gameplay one attempts to give each Ringwraith a unique twist.

How much autonomy the RWs have is open for debate, but that each has a personality still is evident -- why else is the Witch-King their captain? If there were a female Nazgul, I would not put it past her to spend time corrupting males and destroying them, especially if she herself is lost to the world of warmth and light.
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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Thu May 22, 2008 9:31 pm

Only info on any nazgul we have is that Witch-king was first and leader of the army, and a sorcerer. Doesn't mean he has any personality, in fact the RW's are at all times subject to Saurons will and do all at his bidding, that is the essence of being ringwraith. It is often said that their cries are but an expression of their own fear and agony of being neither dead nor living and having no real existence outside the will of Sauron. They might once have had strong personality, now actually they have none.

But, agreed on the purpose and usefulness of some personality for the game. Developing it doesn't need to be cross alignment though, there is a difference between hero and minion characters for a reason. All we have as a lead is the Aduni unleashed card made by ICE. The companion (or guide, always get these mixed) describes her an ambitious woman, but not as femme fatale. She could have influence bonus vs. men (the gender), lead an army of amazones, or she could negate the female bonus vs. nazgul, not being a man herself: right back at yah! (the prophesy was only for WK after all). Just some random thoughts.

btw. Galadriel did not return out of her own ambition and some vanity, that's true, and ambition and vanity can be very appealing to others. But, she was self-made woman, and magnificent, while nazguls are subjects and wretched.
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