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Council of Elrond • View topic - Re Plotting Ruin:

Re Plotting Ruin:

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Re Plotting Ruin:

Postby Jambo » Mon May 19, 2008 10:25 am

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Postby marcos » Mon May 19, 2008 9:26 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Mon May 19, 2008 10:14 pm

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Postby Frodo » Tue May 20, 2008 5:18 am

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Postby Jambo » Tue May 20, 2008 8:15 am

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Postby Bandobras Took » Tue May 20, 2008 1:45 pm

The free hold is already tapped. Whatever card tapped it targeted it, because it played out an action (tapping) through the site.

There are several actions associated with the play of Smoke On the Wind:

A) Creating an attack of 5 at 8;
B) Creating an attack of 1 at 10; and
C) Tapping a character.

However, neither of these attacks are even keyed to the site, and tapping the character has nothing to do with the site. This card creates no actions that are played out through the site.

As for card play itself, "Playable at an already tapped Free Hold" is a condition. However, while any targets of a card are active conditions, active conditions are not automatically targets. If the card read "Playable if you tap a Free Hold," it would then target the Free Hold in question as part of its play because there would then be an action that is played out through the entity in question.

Finally, while hero resources may not be used as the condition for minion resources and vice versa, there is no such rule for site alignments. Hero sites may be used as a condition for minion resources so long as no actions of that card are played out through the site.
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Postby Jambo » Tue May 20, 2008 2:39 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Tue May 20, 2008 2:50 pm

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Postby Frodo » Thu May 22, 2008 6:50 am

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Postby Bandobras Took » Thu May 22, 2008 1:09 pm

The original rule was a resource may not target/affect a cross-alignment resource/site.

This was limited to events. Items, Allies, and Factions may affect cross-alignment things freely.

Smoke on the Wind does not affect the Free Hold it is played at in any way, nor does it target it. It affects other copies of Smoke on the Wind by making them unplayable at a specific Free-Hold, but that's it.
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Postby Jambo » Fri May 23, 2008 9:22 am

I had another idea for this card:

Plotting Ruin V
Playable if you have at least 7 stage points. Your Burning Rick, Cot, and Tree and Smoke on the Wind are each worth 2 marshalling points.

Or:

Plotting Ruin V
Playable if you have at least 7 stage points. One Burning Rick, Cot, and Tree and one Smoke on the Wind are each worth full marshalling points.

Perhaps either of these or a combination of these would allow us it to keep it affecting hero sites?
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Postby Bandobras Took » Fri May 23, 2008 1:49 pm

Refresh my memory; why are we changing this card? Is it too easy to successfully play Smoke on the Wind?
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Postby Jambo » Fri May 23, 2008 2:06 pm

Because FWs can play both of these on hero versions of the sites. This is clearly a much simpler task than trying to play it on a minion version. (Normally these cards are only worth 1 MP.)

As hero versions don't have nasty automatic attacks, the task at hand is considerably easier. Overt FW companies are typically much weaker than regular minion orc and troll companies, and with hero sites much simpler to enter, it's likely one will never see overt FW companies burning and looting...
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Postby Bandobras Took » Fri May 23, 2008 5:27 pm

Having to go to Minion sites doesn't make it too much harder; Heart Grown Cold and the original plotting ruin merely mean that a character with the home site taps to cancel the automatic attack.

How about "Playable if you have Bad Company in play and at least three orcs or trolls, one of whom is a leader."
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Postby marcos » Fri May 23, 2008 10:38 pm

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