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Council of Elrond • View topic - Morannon

Morannon

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Morannon

Postby Jambo » Tue May 13, 2008 8:26 am

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Wed May 14, 2008 9:41 am

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Sun May 18, 2008 9:33 am

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Postby Frodo » Mon May 19, 2008 4:53 am

Smarty pants. I swear that I was actually reading through the posts when you wrote this message! But yes, your last message made my mind rattle on a too-late work night so I let it be, and then more or less forgot about it. Btw, I moved the old discussion to this forum, though I found it impossible to combine the topics together (if anyone knows how to do this, let me know.)

Yet again though, I have to wait until Monday night to respond. Sorry. I spent all night responding to every OTHER forum.

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Postby Frodo » Tue May 20, 2008 5:01 am

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Thu May 22, 2008 8:51 pm

Well, your dedication to the project is legendary Frodo, and you will be payed for this in golden kuddos, mark my words. :wink: I only hope this longest post ever doesn't scare anyone out of commenting, because it would be really nice to receive, if not detailed comments, just some (dis)approval about the basic idea of a forced draw or joined loss.

I will keep it short until then, mainly because you've covered most things, and not to draw too much on others.

@Morannon.
1 I think both options of attacks during mh phase or site phase have their advantages and disadvantages. You say you can play hazards on the attacks of this card. Are you sure about that? Don't the card's attacks have to be resolved without interference of other cards? However may be, I think attacks in mh phase is fine, I only mentioned site phase because I wanted to be sure the guys would actually be at the Morannon (the first time) to do the challenge. In your version they might not arrive there, and stil the card is tapped and the attacks follow.

2 I think it's one site phase when hopping. There may also be cards played not on the site (lost in FD) that force comp to do nothing, so I suppose the clause is still needed.

3 You want comp. to face attacks wherever they are, even should they run off to Rivendell? I think it's strange, but ok, if that saves space. Would attacks not be cancelled at a haven though? If so, that's really no good, the comp. must face attacks as long as this card is tapped, otherwise with Sudden Call it'll be a free insurence against a dunker. btw single Galadriel/Snaga companies do worry me a bit in this respect.
btw. should only the Morannon comp. face the attacks, or any company at a site with tapped Morannon. Because if comp. moves to let's say Death Marshes, and opponent is there, would Sauron spare him?

@Sudden Call
1 You deliberately chose the name Sudden Call over Cracks? because I really think Cracks is more thematic, both in title and in picture. Ringwraiths have little to do with it, and it's not a minion who plays this card.

2 I made it beginning of site phase exactly for the reason you stipulate: to not respond with Cracks/GF. I don't understand why the beginning of site phase should be unorthodox. Site phase begins after facing auto, right? Before facing autos nothing can be played, and if opponent declares he doesn't want to play anything after, why should you not have the right to play something before he declares it's the end? Either way, your treatise on the timing issue was insightful, and I suppose the play Sudden Call in response to Cracks would work also, if only for the clever player but that's your own responsibility. You can never be sure opponent is ready for the dunk though, so it's a gamble for your part as well. This card is just so great!
So any time during site phase is ok with me. The deliberate blowing of ringrolls hadn't occured to me. I think a dunk player will not be likely to do this, unless the Morannon player is in a really really bad shape (or out of resentment).

3 I don't really understand your worry of Sudden Call in site phase being too fast. You mean if played as resource? I suppose it's safe to say Morannon plays slower than dunking, if done with actual intention of winnig by Morannon that is. Of course you can play and tap Morannon by turn 3 (or if Bridging even by turn 2, or FW player even turn 1), but that would mean you really have no rings yet. All this does is let the Morannon player sweat for a few turns with the big attacks. Only worries I have in this respect is an almost undefeatable comp., like Galadriel with nenya, or Snaga V. If someone wants to play Morannon just as insurance, he'll have to invest big. And Sudden Call will have to be in deck too. And is it really favourable against a dunker, is it worth the investment genrally speaking?
If played as resource, the dunk player has little to gain if he plays it too fast, unless for example his wizard is killed or Morannon player plays Scroll in turn 1. Then again, the Morannon player at least in my version had the option to retreat if he'd see that happening, and Morannon would untap...

4 I like the idea of Sauron attacking at Mount Doom also, or moving the Morannon attacks there, if the comp is squatting too long. But that involves making Sudden Call a perm. I suppose, or playable during org. phase at Mount Doom or something. It all makes it very complicated, and there were some complaints it already is all too complicated.
I was thinking about a possible Gollum attack, like "if Gollum is at Mount Doom or not in play, you may reveal My Precious if not yet revealed. Any face up My Precious attacks the company regardless of status and whereabouts." It's schizofrenia after all. It wouldn't matter if opponent flipped Precious before you did then, and this would be the last resort for evil in middle earth. But of course, the player of Sudden Call would not want the ring actually discarded, so even here the point could be moot.
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Postby marcos » Fri May 23, 2008 10:40 pm

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Postby Frodo » Sat May 24, 2008 7:31 am

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Sat May 24, 2008 10:20 am

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Postby BoderHamster » Sat May 24, 2008 10:50 am

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Postby Bandobras Took » Sat May 24, 2008 3:50 pm

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Sat May 24, 2008 5:26 pm

Well, since you can only avoid a draw by playing Cracks/Gollum's Fate in response to Sudden Call, you are actually incouraged to arrive at Mount Doom with the One already in the company. If you wait until Doom, you might get a draw forced, or worse, if you wait even longer your opponent might go ahead with Morannon. In fact, whoever gets the One out fastest has more chances of winning.

This is not just any forced draw on a dunk player, it is a competition for glory between a Morannon player and dunk player, and they may both benefit and lose out on Sudden call, depending on the situation of the game. The funny thing is that it's a tricky business judging who's ahead and thus who feels he needs to catch up by playing it.
You feel it's disappointing resolution to the game? Well, it's ultimately thematic: Aragorn/Gandalf and Frodo defeated Sauron together, so both deserved praise. And what is the game about?: showing that you are better at fighting evil(good) than your opponent. Not all games are decided, a draw is also possible now, I would rather have this than a draw on mp's. It would be cooler perhaps if both would win, but that's not possible, because people might fix their game.
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Postby BoderHamster » Sun May 25, 2008 9:54 am

You guys know that there is a permanent event that forbiddes testing at mount doom....!!!

In the hearth of his realm:
which does something like that:
This cards forbids character moving in gorgoroth or a dark domain.
or in gorgoroth or a dark domain....
may neither use their sage skill or spells....


So this means if i play against a ring deck that test at mount doom....
I drop this card as a hazard... and voila.... their attemp fails...!!!
because there is no card to test it they can play!!!


So there is already a card to stop the testing at mount doom thing.... so please tell me where the problem is???
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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Sun May 25, 2008 10:21 am

Both Morannon and Sudden Call are not about fixing any problem, whether testing at Doom or otherwise, where did you get that idea?

btw. In the Heart of his Realm is a hazard perm and thus can only be played during mh phase and it can be marvelled, so it's not a great obstacle for testing at Doom, but it is useful yes.
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Postby BoderHamster » Sun May 25, 2008 10:49 am

No it can't be marveled... at least not by the company at móunt doom itself!!!
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