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Council of Elrond • View topic - Dwar Unleashed

Dwar Unleashed

Where the Virtual Boyz plan their latest capers

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Postby Frodo » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:03 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:42 pm

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:33 am

I did Greek at school (the language...) for 5 years and had to translate the Iliad and Elektra by sophocles, but unfortunately I never learned the meaning of lycanthrope :wink:

I agree with Bandobras that introducing a new mode would be better accepted if you stick to the same mode rules. Anyway it's alot clearer.

I don't see a big problem with moving to opponent. This whole thing seems to me to be about interaction, so why not persue it more on that road. Many opponents will be far away from wolf territory. That's also why I don't think you need to up the mp's, maybe the petty wolves and wolf factions are worth less, but each mp you take away from opponent in CvCC counts double...let's not forget that you play alot of ally mp's, the hardest category to get, if you can focus on ally destruction (eg in cvcc, or by keying some nazgul to the DD you just created), then you might double alot of points...

but actually, maybe I missed something, what was wrong with the original region movement ability? did it take too long to build up the hound mp's?

btw. the small company eriador roam can be very successful, as proven by some balrogs who made even world champ, like in 2003. Ok balrog has other stuff going for it, but if you keep hl low, one of your companies will always get through unharmed and play multiple stuff at a site, so there is no need to squat. In fact, squatting is way too vulnerable to Heedless, what you need is a combo of squat, short movement (same region, like Weathertop to White Towers), and multiple small strong companies (lieutenant with lagduf, shagrat with muzgash, two report you's, something like that, again, balrogs have it easy). Also the first turns Dwar will still support you with his +1.

Like I said before, it's actually the high faction rolls that are more problematic I think, because the type of guys you'd want to play this with rely on threats and have few other options, unless they scoop some trophies. The offensive part doesn't combine well with the influencing part, as you say, so maybe it's better to give Dwar's companies +3 on rolls vs wolf factions?

The power of the alternate use of Hounds is very good, don't underestimate that. But of course it always brings you back to Elerina, not many people have the courage to send out Ciryaher with some wolves. So, would it be stretching it to lett all your companies use Hounds and OOW, as long as there are dogs present in the company?

I still think some dog healing ability would be nice or in order. If you can't heal them, they actually slow you down and make life more dangerous. We could add to Mounts that if you transfer a wolf, you may heal him.

btw. with WHCTK you can easily play RW followers on Dwar, right?
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Postby marcos » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:40 pm

i wouldn't focus on a cvcc strategy for Dwar, just use it as an alternative option, that is why i'm in favor of extra mps, maybe you can word it similar to factions that gives 2 extra mps when stacked on a leader?
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Postby Bandobras Took » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:11 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:25 pm

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:18 pm

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Postby marcos » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:32 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:37 am

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:47 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:44 am

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Postby Frodo » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:40 am

I really like all the thinking you guys are doing here, especially Bandobras’s long reflections and justifications.

I agree with points that each of you have made. In trying to synthesize all of them, I thought of a solution that might make everybody happy. It gives the strategic player something more to do, and the straightforward player some useful movement options. It does require the creation of another virtual card… but strangely enough, it also requires the **removal** of Dwar Unleashed (V), which means things are a bit simpler, because we can go back to using a card that already exists (the original Dwar Unleashed!), rather than trying to reinvent the movement wheel.

Without further ado:

War-Warg (V)
Ranger Ally.
Prowess: 3. Body: 10.
Spirit of Carcharoth. Playable by Dwar (as your Ringwraith) during the site phase at a Darkhaven, if you discard a Wolf ally from any company. Treat this card like a Black Horse for the purposes of Black Rider (V). Characters with Wolf allies may be in Dwar's company during the site phase. Tap to take Dwar Unleashed or any Wolf into hand from discard pile or play deck (reshuffle), or if not moving to turn its current region and one adjacent region for each unique Wolf faction in play into a [D] until your next organization phase. This ally may play Our Own Wolves and Hounds of Sauron. Our Own Wolves no longer creates an attack against your companies. Spirit of Carcharoth cannot be duplicated.

I got the idea for this card because I thought I remembered werewolves being mentioned in Tolkien, and I was right. We could also use the card Hounds of Sauron for this ally (virtualizing it), if people thought that was better. Note that this ally can be transferred to another character using Orc-mounts if there’s another character in Dwar’s company; I’m not sure if we want that ability, so I left Thorsten’s clause about “only during the site phase.” Of course, that will just encourage Dwar to move with other Ringwraiths (although if you want more than one RW follower, they might need Black Horses or they’ll get stuck, which is very weird indeed).

Now, this card doesn’t directly list any super cool abilities for Dwar getting lots of wolf allies, I admit. BUT, since you CVCC in the site phase, it still provides the ability to meet up your Wolf and Dwar companies at the opponent’s single site, and then maul him to pieces. (Note that Our Own Wolves cannot be played offensively, so those Wolf allies will simply be extra strikes, but that still is nice—or they can defend with Our Own Wolves.) It does make unique Wolf factions tempting for the oldest reason of all—they’re pullable!—but also because it bolsters Dwar’s werewolf-moving abilities. (And I hope everyone noticed that in only helps Dwars if he’s MOVING places, not just sitting in places!)

This leaves us with a much simpler Orc-mounts:

ORC-MOUNTS
Playable at any tapped or untapped site with a Wolf automatic-attack (if you have a Wolf faction in play) or an Orc automatic-attack if the influence check is >10. Standard modifications: +3 if Dwar is your Ringwraith or Saruman is your Fallen-wizard. Your unique Wolf factions gain “Standard modifications: +2 for each Wolf in company.” Tap Orc-mounts to transfer a Wolf ally to another controller if the ally is moving. You may untap the new controller or heal the ally.

And, like I said before, no longer any need for a Dwar Unleashed (V).

Feel free to critique!

--Frodo
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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:54 am

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Postby Bandobras Took » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:52 pm

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:16 pm

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