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Council of Elrond • View topic - Cup of Farewell -revisted

Cup of Farewell -revisted

Where the Virtual Boyz plan their latest capers

Moderator: Virtual Card Development

Cup of Farewell -revisted

Postby Frodo » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:13 pm

It looks like some people feel that the fact that this card allows the gaining of a minor item upon splitting a company AND leaving the site is too strong.

I don't see it as too strong, but I also don't see any other way to word it without running into language problems. It was an intentional ability of the card. Unless I missed something, here's my reasoning why it can't be worded differently:

1) It has to at least say "when leaving the site", because otherwise you can't use it with another player's Galadriel or Arwen.
2) It also has to say "when splitting from a company," because otherwise the female character may have split off from the site and done her m/h phase already, and then the next company leaving the site will get no minor item.

Do others really see the ability as too strong? Perhaps I'm missing the obvious.

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Postby Bandobras Took » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:25 am

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Re: Cup of Farewell -revisted

Postby Jambo » Fri May 02, 2008 8:37 am

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Postby Bandobras Took » Fri May 02, 2008 1:43 pm

Sometimes the timing of getting the item is crucial; limiting Cup to only when a company leaves the site means that one can no longer get the minor items in the organization phase because you don't leave the site until the start of the m/h phase. This would mean that I can't bring in untappers for extra sideboarding (or rather that it would have to wait for a full turn after Cup's use, etc.). The card will still be useful, but it won't be quite as strong.
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Postby Jambo » Fri May 02, 2008 1:54 pm

Why not have it splits or leaves, with 'or' being more clearly defined that it cannot be both? Then the choice is yours.
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Postby BoderHamster » Fri May 02, 2008 6:58 pm

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Postby Jambo » Mon May 12, 2008 12:45 pm

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Postby marcos » Mon May 12, 2008 8:46 pm

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Postby Frodo » Fri May 16, 2008 1:52 am

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Postby Jambo » Fri May 16, 2008 8:37 am

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Postby Frodo » Sat May 17, 2008 4:09 am

Oh boy, now my head is doing somersaults. Somebody, help!

Problem 1: I realized there's NO WAY to add "once per turn" to the current text (to allow items during splits) without STILL leaving the ambiguity--once per turn would still mean both effects could be used once per turn! IF we added something really specific and limiting, like 'this card's effects can only be used once per turn", then we have another problem: this would mean multiple companies leaving a site/company could not benefit from receiving gifts.

Problem 2: What I wrote in response to Jambo was correct but then I didn't follow my own advice. If there is such a thing as "leaving a company", it must mean the same thing as "splitting off from", and therefore is an org phase activity. We can't leave it worded like that, because then the "or" construction cannot be construed to mean EITHER THIS OR THAT, because we are talking about two actions that occur in different phases! So the above text would have to be reworded to say something like

>Whenever a hero company leaves a site with a female character (or leaves the same site as opponent’s Galadriel or Arwen),

but this isn't good enough either, because that would mean you could use it on any female character of opponent's... sigh... i keep trying to insert the word "your" into the above construction, and maybe my head is just tired, but I really can't see a way to do it!

Hmm, how about:
>Whenever a hero company leaves a site with one of its players female characters...

But man oh man, does that sound bad!

Can anyone think of a way to say this?

Otherwise, I am tempted to put a clarification in reminding players that 'splitting off from' and 'leaving a site' are two different things.

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Postby BoderHamster » Sat May 17, 2008 8:40 am

why not add once per turn for each company???
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Postby Jambo » Sat May 17, 2008 9:09 am

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Postby marcos » Sat May 17, 2008 4:56 pm

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Postby Frodo » Mon May 19, 2008 3:56 am

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