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Council of Elrond • View topic - Shadowfax

Shadowfax

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Shadowfax

Postby Jambo » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:45 am

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:43 pm

Yep, like it, was thinking of something like it myself actually, because Shadowfax (like Lego) was a little pale. I had thought to do it the other way around, looking for Shadowfax if you have Gandalf (Gandi does his whistle and Fax arrives), but maybe this is a cool use too, if you've sacrificed him you can retrieve him.
I suppose by 'may not be used to play a different wizard,' you mean: 'you may not play Gandalf if you have already revealed a different wizard at any time during the game.' Otherwise people might take it that you can't play a different wizard with Shadowfax, which is inherent in the fetch Gandalf ability, yet you can sacrifice or have another guy killed and then fetch Gandalf...
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Postby Jambo » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:53 pm

Hm, that's an idea. As well as what I've written there could be a clause for Gandalf being in play before Shadowfax (which is more likely)? For instance Gandalf could play Shadowfax at any site?
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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:07 pm

I was thinking Ruins only, would be too good just to have Gandi play him everywhere, especially FW Gandi. Fax came to the aid of Gandalf, would be less need if he could grab any horse at border/free, and Fax wouldn't get through a shadow/dark. You're more likely to play Gandalf first, obviously.
But, since Fax returned to Gandalf after he died, the other way round is also nice, and bit more specialist.
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Postby Jambo » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:47 pm

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Postby Balin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:48 am

You are giving us cool ideas, Jambo, though I'd like to keep Shadowfax's ranger ability and its playability by Gandalf only. For instance:

Ranger Ally. Unique.

Playable only by Gandalf at any tapped or untapped non-Haven site in Rohan or at any tapped or untapped Border-hold or Ruins & Lairs. Tap to cancel a strike (not from an automatic attack) against its bearer or itself. When Gandalf enters play, you may bring this card from your sideboard or discard pile into your play deck and reshuffle during your organization phase.


Now you don't need to include Shadowfax right into deck, nor to sb it tapping Gandalf or playing smoke rings. Besides, if Gandalf is sacrificed you can take Shadowfax back into deck when he is revealed again.
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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:49 am

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Postby Jambo » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:01 am

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Postby Balin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:08 am

Ranger Ally. Unique.

Playable only by Gandalf at any tapped or untapped non-Haven site in Rohan. Tap to cancel a strike (not from an automatic attack) against its bearer or itself. When Gandalf enters play, you may bring this card from your play deck or discard pile into your hand during your organization phase. Shuffle your play deck if searched.


Better? Too strong?
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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:15 am

Well now he doesn't need to get it out of sideboard, which means saving you a turn (or an untap card). For fallen Gandi it could be very good indeed since he can come into play at Edoras. But okay...

I said at any ruins if Sacrifice is played on him, because I think it's a pitty the guy needs to stay around Rohan, and there are only 3 sites in Rohan, which you might have already used and discarded by then, one for sure since you played Fax there in the first place.
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Postby Jambo » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:58 am

Ranger Ally. Unique.
Playable only by Gandalf at any tapped or untapped Ruins & Lairs or Border-hold. Tap to cancel a strike (not from an automatic attack) against its bearer or itself. When Gandalf enters play, you may bring this card from your discard pile into your hand or sideboard into your play deck.


This no longer restricts Shadowfax to Rohan, although all non Free-hold sites in Rohan are Border-holds or Ruin & Lairs anyway. This should also make it a little harder for Fallen Gandalf.

If you include Shadowfax in play deck and you draw it first and have to discard or Gandalf is Sac of Formed with Shadowfax, then you can draw it straight to hand. If you have it in your sideboard then you can bring it to your play deck. Fair compromise?
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Postby Balin » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:45 pm

Agree :D
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Postby Frodo » Sat May 17, 2008 4:27 am

I like the evolution of the card here, including Jambo's last simplified playability clause, but I really see no reason for allowing the card to be taken directly from sideboard into hand! Why is it such a hassle to include a copy in one's deck? If you're not confident you'll draw Gandalf, that's a price you'll have to pay.

I would say we should leave it as per Thorsten's original clause: "When Gandalf enters play, you may bring this card from your play deck (reshuffle) or discard pile into your hand."

This still makes it a very good card indeed.

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Postby BoderHamster » Sat May 17, 2008 8:32 am

yeah... think like frodo too.... this version seems good enough...
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Postby Jambo » Sat May 17, 2008 9:03 am

As we discussed on GCCG, that's actually better than the current proposal. ;)

There's no sideboard to hand feature.

Frodo did, however, later point out that the current sideboard to play deck is a bit redundant. If it's very easy to recall from discard, you would really want Shadowfax to be in you play deck from the start, not in sideboard. So we could remove that.

Do people really think automatic draw from play deck is a good idea?
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