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Council of Elrond • View topic - know much about u/ F travels in FD

know much about u/ F travels in FD

Where the Virtual Boyz plan their latest capers

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:47 pm

Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.
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Postby marcos » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:58 pm

i'm not expecting alone and unadvised if don't split my companies, and according to you, the best way to deal with lost at free domains is to split... I don't also expect multiple rivers to stop my multiple companies if i don't split my rangers in separate companies... If you split you can be much more vulnerable to that grab bag hazards. Also think that gondor decks are VERY underplayed due to the effects of lost at FD, so why not give some protection against that...
A modification to my previous suggestion comes to my mind:

"Playable on a company at the end of the movement/ hazard phase if the company had at least one [-me_fd-] in their site path. Tap a diplomat character to cancel one Hazard effect that would prevent the company to do nothing during the site phase this turn"

this way you need to get 1 untapped character per card you want to prevent at the end of the mov/haz phase... First go through your movement untouched (if you manage to) and then tap any characters as you wish to cancel either river, lost at sea, lost at FD or darkness made by malice AND if you STILL have any character untapped, play your resource...
Last edited by marcos on Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jambo » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:06 pm

I always feel balance is only achieved when cards have a counter. Cards like Lost at Sea and Lost in the Free Domains don't have counters, although possibly Great Ship can deal with the effect of LaS? You could argue that Lost in Free Domains pretty much single-handedly maims Gondor decks.

If a card is introduced to deal with this type of effect, then arguably one would need alternative useful hazards to deal with Gondor decks, ones that perhaps themselves have counters. The best types of cards are cards which have multiple uses. For instance, Siege can target border-holds in addition to Free-holds thereby making it more appealing and less restrictive. Cards that are overly restrictive or have too narrow a function tend to be limited to the sideboard.
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Postby marcos » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:11 pm

knights of the prince and corsairs umbar also hit gondor decks very well, and without mention that corsairs can be mixed with mumaks...

*me remembers old age games when he destroyed one gondor deck after another with such cards*
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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:13 pm

agreed. balance is important (aoehhhmmm :wink: )
Marcos' suggestion is not bad, letting a guy tap to cancel the effect of lost in FD, like the river UEP, and what I had in mind for a anti Rolled Down card...
it's not easy to tap everyone when they're running around in FD though. Maybe tap scout? scout is searching the way to Pelargir. Or tap diplomat, diplomat asks the way to Pelargir. (Or tap sage, sage knows the way to Pelargir).
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Postby marcos » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:23 pm

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:42 pm

but then in this version the diplomat can also cancel river etc? I meant I like the general idea, but that would be very good indeed, just visit the shire first if you go to Old Forest...not to mention the fact that it's strange that diplomats can cancel rivers.
why not stick to lost in FD? you think it's too limited? maybe lost in FD and lost at Sea, since these site-paths get combined alot.
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Postby marcos » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:50 pm

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Postby Jambo » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:10 am

Maybe end of Org phase would be better? Hazard player then has better options. How about :

Fair Travels in Free-domains
Short-event
Playable on a company at the end of the organization phase. If the company had at least one Free-domain in its site path, you may tap a diplomat character to cancel the effects of one hazard that would prevent the company from doing anything during its site phase.

Anyone else any thoughts on the I Know Much About You new proposal? It's quite a far-reaching card with many permutations. As a result, it requires careful consideration.
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Postby marcos » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:43 pm

yes, that can be an option, but i'll stick to the cancel "lost" cards... As thorsten pointed, prevents the effect of doing nothing will be too much since it will be able ot cancel rivers...

About Know much about you, i really really like, i'll just make it an riddle attempt, or something like that AND make some kind of roll
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Postby Jambo » Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:37 pm

Hero diplomat asks peasant farmer in Free-domain: "Excuse me young peasant, can you direct me to the nearest crossing for that river up yonder?"

/proffers coins to peasant

Peasant: "Sure! There's a ford up there. Can't miss it."

;)
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Postby Frodo » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:30 am

Hmm...

You guys always give me something to think about!

It's okay Thorsten; I admit that I Know Much About You was actually my top LEAST favorite card in the set, and I swung back and forth many times as to whether or not to cut it entirely. The idea was that you could protect yourself from certain creatures by cramping your hand with one of them, for example if Thief was your absolute nemesis, or Cave-drake, or Cave Worm. The agent ability was just a bonus is admittedly a little lame.

My main annoyance with this card now, however, comes from agreement with Jambo's comment that I had never thought about: it actually *encourages* the play/use of OLD hazard strategies (Cavedrake, Cave Worm) rather than new ones. Yikes, that's not good. Yet, I *did* like the idea that you were effectively predicting what lame and overused hazard creatures your opponent was most likely to throw at you, and this is what you were now preventing yourself against. Perhaps it should have been a long-event. That would have changed everything, I think.

The idea behind Fair-travels (V) is to enable you to pull off incredible combos in the site phase that normally require a large hand-size. I'm not sure if it's too strong as a long-event, because three companies taking advantage of it (moving 3 FDs) would net a 6 card draw... though perhaps it's just like Short Rest in that respect. But such drawing power is not the intention of the card, nor to encourage so many companies keeping safely to the free-lands.

Perhaps we should have made this card a permanent-event that can be used once per turn. Is that any better?

As far as the rewrites, I agree with Thorsten that Lost in Free Domains is one of the only definitive hazards cards against Gondor decks. The resource player’s meta-strategy then becomes that you must go to Gondor and LEAVE Gondor before he can sideboard this card in. Or, if you’re moving there only once, try not to let him predict this movement. I’m not sure how I feel about the rewrite. It’s not bad; but is it necessary? The argument is that the presence of such a card prohibits the use of “constant-Gondor” decks. 1) Is this correct? The last two virtual games I played were against Gondor decks. And this has always been a strong strategy that I’ve seen used in tourneys; are there really players who have given up their dreams of Gondor decks because of Lost in Free Domains? 2) Even if it is correct, does this card really help? It gives you a one-shot protection that you must use on your most valued turn, and since the opponent sees it coming, he will save his Lost for another turn. But maybe that’s okay. One thing I don’t like about it is that the Great Ship deck is pretty strong and Lost at Sea is about the only card that can hurt it. But perhaps the limitation of needing to involve a free-domain is good enough.

As far as the revision to I Know Much About You, that is a very interesting card indeed! And much better, methinks, than my original card. I don’t really like the idea of a roll, however. It would be nice if it was significantly different than Flatter and Riddling Talk, etc. Is a roll really necessary? Also, when making this card be sure to compare it utility and difficulty to cards like Riddling Talk, or whichever one it is that requires you to guess a card. Finally, is it worth having the card playable during the org too for an alternatively effect that would mimic the idea that you are aware of what your opponent is up to? “Alternatively, playable during the org on a company and name a non-unique creature title. Until the end of the turn, creatures by that name cannot be played on this company.”

Nice thinking!

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Postby Jambo » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:00 am

That's a really cool alternative. But maybe such an alternative is worthy of its own card? I have a card in mind which I've been wanting to virtualise since day one! Gift of Comprehension. I'll put it into the Showcase forum, along with the I Know Much About You for added discussion. :)
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Postby BoderHamster » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:54 am

Here my new idear for the free travel in free domains that was discussed so far.

Fair travel in Free-Domains (V)
Permanent event

As long as Fair travel in Free-Domains is tapped your handsize is increased by one.
Whenever a company you controle has a free domain in it's site path, Fair travel in free domains becomes tapped.
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Postby Bandobras Took » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:32 pm

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