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Council of Elrond • View topic - Fixing Fallen Saruman

Fixing Fallen Saruman

Where the Virtual Boyz plan their latest capers

Moderator: Virtual Card Development

Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:57 am

Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.
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Postby Bandobras Took » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:40 am

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Postby Jambo » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:48 am

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:47 pm

Sure, that might be a solid start. I would like to offer my version, but since it's Bandobras' topic and he is the one who has least spared himself in trying to make Saruman work, I'll gladly let him do the honours first. :wink: . Take it away! (I vagely remember he did something like this at the meccg.net forum already though)

It depends on how much risk you're willing to take. With the Carambor machine you can play two rings in turn one, make for a haven in turn two, and go for it in turn three. But the probabilities are indeed not very realistic, and waiting two more turns will up your chances without giving opponent the victory.
Problem with other fast FW decks is, as usual, getting the stage cards that either give mp's or make mp's count for you. If you draw a great many of cards, you need to either diss them, or hold on to them a full turn! in which case you can't play mp-cards. This is why the ally-breeding works best. My FW Gandalf scores like 35 mps in 5-6 turns, it's great, but if you keep drawing your Chambers and Guarded Havens during your own mh-fase, you're dead.

True, not many people play rings. But they might get more popular someday, and if you add the Rolled Down clause you also benefit yourself. Or some other device can be thought of, I would just like something to do with rings, for thematic reasons.
Has anybody ever played the Bree Ring-squat? It's pretty effective actually. I've played the Benelux championships (2004 I think) with it and won, but I never saw it anywhere else. Since I don't play decks twice in tournaments, I haven't used it again.
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Postby Bandobras Took » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:22 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:27 pm

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Postby Frodo » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:29 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:59 pm

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Postby Jambo » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:34 pm

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:31 pm

you pretty much covered them all!
But maybe I can add a perspective by trying to formulate it a bit differently?

1 His Bonus-stage doesn't match with his support stage cards. (He needs factions, but he gets mps for items/information, and can recycle rings and test cards)

2 Partly as a result, and of his Bonus-stage unique requirements, and his low GI, he needs more stage cards than the others (except perhaps Gandalf), which results in bad card managment, less slots for useful stuff, and more SP's, which can be dangerous (Inner Rot devastates him)

3 His home site doesn't match either with his innate mp preference (scroll/emerald/necklace/palantiri/rings). Strangely enough, if you could play him at the Lonely Mountain, that would actually benefit him :lol:

With Forge-master, Saruman V, and White Hand V, I think all these would be solved.
However, as I've said before, I think with the Plotting Ruin V a Burn deck can become too good. FW counts as a hero alignment. A normal player doesn't have big hazards for free-holds or borders in borderlands against hero players, he has assassins, but Ready to his Will can counter that. If you can score 5 points avarage each turn on a free/border, and on top get a 6 MP bonus, and you don't need specific stage requirements so you can play it fast, that will overdo it. But, it can be playtested. Maybe the lack of real high prowess characters (troll/grimburgoth) makes it more difficult...

Though Bandobras suggests not changing the GI/DI of Saruman, because it's part of the flavor, maybe we could do something about his home-sites? As it is now, basically you have a 100% chance to be Called Home if you play Saruman, since your GI drops 5 points. So Forge-master/Shagrat is obligatory almost in starting comp. If you could play him at any free-hold in Anduin Vales for example, you could more easily bring him into play with a slash 'n burn company. I know it sounds strange, but Saruman was wandering around there for quite some time after all.

Or, if you could play him in Bree :wink: . I never played a Saruman ring-squat in Bree, Frodo. I was referring to a Sauron/Ren deck. Because obviously that's alot easier, and obviously Bree was made for a company of Dwarves to hang around, controlling Elerina/Baduila/Grimburgoth. I'll send you a list.
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Postby Bandobras Took » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:51 pm

How about:

You may also bring Saruman into play in the company of any character bearing a Gold Ring Item or Special Ring Item?
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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:11 pm

Yes, sounds great!
I like ! (thumbs up)
would it help the slashers though?
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Postby Bandobras Took » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:55 pm

Only a combined Slasher/Ring-gathering deck. And if you can pull that off, more power to you!

Obviously a mobile home site for any wizard is strong, so I didn't want to go overboard, but rather keep a theme that provides a nice limiter as well.
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Postby marcos » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:17 pm

i like it too :)
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Postby Jambo » Thu May 15, 2008 1:06 pm

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