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Council of Elrond • View topic - Nazgul are Abroad and Half an Eye Open

Nazgul are Abroad and Half an Eye Open

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Postby Jambo » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:24 am

Free hazards could stack 2, 4, 6 instead of 1, 2, 3 and it could be per movement/hazard phase rather than per turn.

However, like I mentioned above the more important issue is whether the cards placed with TNaA have to actually target a Nazgul creature to be free or whether the cards simply have to have the potential to target a Nazgul creature. Once this is clarified, defining the number of free hazards will be easier to judge as will be the hazards that can be placed with the cards (e.g. Morgul Horse, Long Dark Reach, Fury, etc). Same for HaEO.
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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:08 am

actually target creature, thought that was decided. This card was about boosting nazgul attack.

Morgul horse if used for keyability targets the creature, if used for the tapped perm it doesn't? even though it's a short-event when tapped, it's also still a creature by type, right? :?
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Postby Jambo » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:33 pm

The reason I included creature in the card was to distinguish between Nazguls played as events and a Nazgul actually played or about to be played as a creature (or one in hand which is undefined). But it all depends if the rules allow for such a distinction. Otherwise, including creature on the card is superfluous.

Frodo seems to imply that cards targeting a Nazgul creature will target Nazguls as events and will include those cards which have the potential to target a Nazgul but could actually be used to target a non-Nazgul creature, e.g. Long Dark Reach, Words of Power (virtual), Fury of the Iron Crown...
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Postby Frodo » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:12 am

Yes, let’s stack 2 per card, per m/h (per mh just makes it easier to keep track of). So text should read “Twice per m/h, hazards targeting Nazgul creatures do not count against the hazard limit.” The reason why this targets Words of Power is because you must reveal a Nazgul creature from hand to use Words of Power.

To be honest… I’m not sure whether cards that merely mention the word “Nazgul” in their game text (like both versions of The Nazgul Are Abroad, or Long Dark Reach, or even Eowyn) automatically are targeting Nazgul. This may very well be the case. Even if it isn’t, the rules judges might change their mind, and make that the case. So we have to be careful about using this word “target,” and the way to be so careful is simply to say “targeting Nazgul creatures” (or Nazgul hazards, but I think we don’t want it that way, right?) I hope for HEO we wrote unique dragon creature; if we didn’t, we should! Potential doesn’t matter, it’s whether it targets it as a creature or not. But Long Dark Reach… ugh, that one baffles me. Oh boy… this one is really confusing. Perhaps it CAN target Nazgul creatures, but since it does not target them when the playability of the card (i.e., whether it counts against the hazard limit) is established or not, I would say it can never be a free hazard by our clause.

Ooh, I just thought of an analogy. You play Scorba on someone. Scorba resolves, but before strike assignment the opponent plays some resource. You then play Agburanar at Home (before strike assignment, which is legal). Now, is Scorba retroactively considered free? I doubt it.

Nazguls on the table played as events are EVENTS. They are not creatures. They are not creatures by type, they are Nazguls by type. Nazguls in hand are not undefined; they are both creatures and permanent-events.

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Postby Jambo » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:18 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:36 pm

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:32 pm

I also like Dragon's sickness from under HaEO, but can live without it.

I think it's a pitty hazards targetting athomes are not free. They're the same dragons after all. I agree you don't want to incourage more play of ahunts, but now we have to include the athomes for this card so why not let them interact with the hazards? because of Tidings?

also, why mention short or permanent event especially, which non unique dragon hazard long events are there and would these be problematic? Pits of Angband, okay, anything else? Otherwise maybe just mention it with the exceptions.
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Postby Jambo » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:32 pm

Ok, no problem to put Dragon-sickness back.

We can cut that short- and perm- text out if it's only Pits of Angband that people are worrried about and then list that in the exceptions. Was there any other reason for the for long-events being excluded?

Are we getting there? Sure not. ;)
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Postby Frodo » Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:53 am

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Postby Jambo » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:09 am

Infinite hazards on unique dragons could get very ugly if you're using Long Dark Reach which makes Dragons extremely playable. Combined with cards like Prowess of Might, Prowess of Age, Passion of Wrath and Dragon's Desolation you've effectively got a Dragon without the -4 prowess that Long Dark Reach typically imparts. Two hazards per m/h phase, with 2 HaEO in play, will still afford such a combo, but then at least you have 2 haEO in play and will have earned the right, perhaps.

Do Ahunts really need a free hazard boost? Like at Homes they're events and so extremely easy to play already. Free hazards on top, I'm not convinced. I still think this should remain with Dragons as creatures, since they're the ones that clog the hand and it's them that tend not see much play. If you want to play Ahunts or at Homes and these cards, I think they should count against the hazard limit.

Regarding Fury, one could just list it on the list of exceptions. It's easier, and there's nothing wrong with just playing this card from within the play deck. However I do like the discard two Nazguls clause, if you can convince me how it won't make Scimitars actually discard 3 Nazgul events in total? ;)

Discard when any play is exhausted. This was, if I recall correctly, done to ensure that cards placed with this card are appropriately discarded when any play deck is exhausted. It could be changed to say "discard any cards placed with this card..." if you wanted TNaA or HaEO to remain, or it could say "discard when your play deck is exhausted", although the latter is not used by any othe MeCCG card.
Last edited by Jambo on Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:09 am

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Postby Jambo » Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:37 am

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Postby Frodo » Fri May 02, 2008 2:34 am

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Postby Jambo » Fri May 02, 2008 9:22 am

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Fri May 02, 2008 9:52 am

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