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Council of Elrond • View topic - Nazgul are Abroad and Half an Eye Open

Nazgul are Abroad and Half an Eye Open

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Nazgul are Abroad and Half an Eye Open

Postby Jambo » Thu May 31, 2007 12:21 pm

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Postby Jambo » Thu May 31, 2007 12:26 pm

In terms of Nazgul creature strategies in general, they still remain rather weak overall since they're so easy to cancel (noble steed for example) or just avoid (i.e. by not visiting dark or shadow places). Have you thought about the [V] Words of Power and Terror card I thought up? Essentially it's very similar to the Prowess of Age card for Dragons, except it's for Nazgul attacks. Maybe something like that is a better alternative to boost Nazgul strategies rather than further increasing the potency of TNaA?
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Postby marcos » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:07 am

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Postby Jambo » Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:07 am

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:20 am

hmm, since the card was intended for making nazgul attack strategy more viable, I wouldn't take the nazgul-perm as host road, or the the discard only road, or the count against the hl road, since these are all much needed for this strategy boost. btw. I don't understand your math Marcos, it takes only 1 nazgul to transfer 3 Scimitars and 2 Tribes to discard :? So to play them even all, even with a perm-host needed, you need 5 nazgul.
Anyway, if you can fizzle TNaA so easily it's worthless (river horses, marvels, praise to elbereth).

For one thing, as I suggested and I thought it was agreed on, that not discarding TNaA ever actually makes it less strong. Of course this doesn't work for Scimitars, but, you can focus your Marvels on Scimitars in stead of on TNaA or on the nazgul perm to the same effect though.
Perhaps easiest would be to exclude Scimitars/...we talked about this before.
I think the mechanism is fine, only it has unwanted side-effects since it ups other strategies and thus doesn't influence meta-game the way we want it. Thus, I'd say remove certain cards from TNaA!

Why is HaEO not so good Jambo?
HaEO also works in combo with spiders/wolves: Worm's Stench. I always liked the card. With this card you can finally play Dragon's Desolation on Smaug, followed by Worm's Stench and Giant Spiders, for only 3 HL and 2 slots in your hand. That way there's still room for Many Sorrows to cancel the marvels...
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Postby marcos » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:53 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:45 am

It may be late, but I'm going to weigh in in favor of reducing Nazgul Are Abroad to Half-an-Eyeish levels. The games I've seen with easy access to Scimitars result in over-buffed orcs destroying everybody (not to mention men).

Instead of the phrase "any card with the word 'Nazgul,' etc.," what about "any card which directly affects a Nazgul attack?" Would that encompass all the cards one would want for Nazgul buffing? Would it exclude any important ones?
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Postby Jambo » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:02 am

What I'd like to see us do is try enable the Nazgul attack boosters while also retaining the option for other cool cards like Black Breath and Out of the Black Sky to be played. Does Black Breath target a Nazgul attack?

Doing this without also enabling Scimitars and Helms is proving tricky, unless we simply list those two as exceptions...

Something along the lines of :

"When this card is played, take up to four cards from your sideboard or discard pile and place them face-down with this card. You may play non-creature hazards placed with this card as if they were from your hand, as long as they target a Nazgul in play or immediately to be played (except Morgul Horse, Scimitars of Steel and Helms of Iron). Once per turn, a card played this way does not count against the hazard limit. Discard all cards underneath this card when any play deck is exhausted."


Depends on whether Black Breath targets a Nazgul...
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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:47 am

don't know why go through this trouble if you can just list the exception cards (which you do already). Also, it would ruin playing hazards resulting a ringwraith attack, something I just proposed at morgul-blade :wink: , but it might ruin other future options as well.
I suppose Helms isn't really a problem though, is it?
I like the changes, once per turn not counting, and discard cards from under it. However, if you discard only cards from under TNaA and itself stays, then you must marvel it yourself to make use of it again! isn't that ironic? (and preferably before exhausting, otherwise it's useless).
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Postby BoderHamster » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:59 pm

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Postby marcos » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:37 am

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Postby Bandobras Took » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:16 am

I'm still against Scimitars/Helms. After seeing some of the possible orc massacres easy Scimitars enables, I'm pretty sure those cards are meant to be difficult to play. Using Nazgul are abroad is both unthematic and altogether too easy, even with the restrictions.
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Postby Jambo » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:27 am

Ok guys, we need versions to look at. It's only when we try to write the cards do we find whether things are possible or workable.

The version I had above is explicitly for Nazgul only, but I'm unsure as to whether it will help Black Breath for instance, and if it doesn't this would be a shame since it's one of the coolest Nazgul cards.

Bandobras, part of the problem is the free hazard being associated with things like Helms and Scimitars. It's just to easy to rank up orcs or men quickly! Remember however that Scimitars is a global event, and it can and sometimes will backfire. Sellswords is a very common hazard.

so, for example:

#1
"When this card is played, take up to four cards from your sideboard or discard pile and place them face-down with this card. You may play non-creature hazards placed with this card as if they were from your hand, only if they directly target a Nazgul or that state "Nazgul attack" in their game text (except Morgul Horse, Scimitars of Steel and Helms of Iron). Once per turn a card played this way does not count against the hazard limit. Discard all cards underneath this card when any play deck is exhausted."

Still allows WoPaT and FotIC.

#2
"When this card is played, take up to four cards from your sideboard or discard pile and place them face-down with this card. You may play non-creature hazards placed with this card as if they were from your hand, only if they directly target a Nazgul or that state "Nazgul attack" in their game text (except Morgul Horse). Once per turn a card played in this way, that directly targets a Nazgul creature, does not count against the hazard limit. Discard all cards underneath this card when any play deck is exhausted."

Freebies are only those that target Nazgul creatures.

Thoughts, suggestions?
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Postby marcos » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:11 pm

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Postby Jambo » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:28 pm

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