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Council of Elrond • View topic - Black Rider, They Ride Together and Heralded Lord V

Black Rider, They Ride Together and Heralded Lord V

Moderator: VC Admins

Black Rider, They Ride Together and Heralded Lord V

Postby Leon » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:02 am

Please take a look at my post with Ringwraith manual V for my complete reasoning and reference.

Short overview of abilities
The Witch-King → active leader
Khamul → Fell Rider
Dwar → wolves
Indur → underdeeps
Akhorahil → magic (Malady)
Hoarmurath → sitting
Adunaphel → lone attack?
Ren → corruption
Uvatha → follower

I think in this list The Witch-King is still under-appreciated, even with the virtual cards. These are my suggestions

Black Rider Virtual
Permanent event. Black Rider mode. Your Ringwraiths company may move to non-Darkhaven sites. Any number of otherwise playable followers may be played during your turn in addition to any other one character normally playable. Additionally uring your organization phase (or immediately after opponent plays a ring), you may place a Black Horse from your sideboard with this card. You may play such cards as if they were in your hand. You may start the game with this card in lieu of a minor item. [85 words]

I want to word it in such a way that other cards are still needed to play Ringwraith followers: The Witch-Kings ability, Uvatha, They Ride Together, Black Horse. Here, your Ringwraith does not need a Black Horse himself, so that the risk of discarding the whole group is smaller. Also, I want to encourage using Black Horse, but do not think it is necessary to play nine of them.

They Ride Together Virtual (new version)
Permanent event. There is no limit to the size of your Ringwraith’s company. If at least half the number of Ringwraiths in the company (fractions rounded up) have a Black Horse, the company may move with region movement. If you have at least six Ringwraiths in a company together you may tap this card at the end of the company’s movement/hazard phase to allow them to move again to a site not in or adjacent to Gorgoroth; this card gives 1 marshalling point for every three Ringwraiths in the company when tapped. [93 words]

In this way Black Rider allows movement and followers and They Ride together gives an improvement and a large mission. You start with Black Rider, move around, play some followers and as the company and the number of horses grows you can play They Ride Together somewhat later in the game. This card will have little effect early in the game.

Heralded Lord Virtual
Permanent event. Heralded Lord mode. Playable on your Ringwraith's company at a Darkhaven during the organization phase. -2 prowess, +3 direct influence to entire company while not at a darkhaven. His own company may move using starter movement. [38 words]

I believe this circumvents the main reasons not to use Heralded Lord. Followers and the card itself are no longer discarded, but the extra influence only works at non-darkhaven sites so it has no use for cheese as far as I can see. If it needs more interesting abilities, please come up with ideas.
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Postby BoderHamster » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:07 am

like the new version for THEY RIDE together...very much!
easy! and has nearly the same effekt in game!!!
(and it finaly makes sense for the card to untap and tap again.
To gain more MP)

Maybe the only thing to add would be to choose if to untap or not...!
(but that would be something to test)
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Postby Leon » Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:20 am

Right Boderhamster, I forgot that tap/untap part. an easier idea is to replace tap with invert. Once extra movement is ok I think.

options:
1) add You may choose to leave this card tapped during untap phase.

2) replace tap with invert.

I like the 2nd option, because it is easier. Extra choices and text is extra complications and you already get a lot of movement.
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Postby marcos » Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:56 pm

your virtual heralded lord makes the old one obsolete
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Postby Leon » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:07 pm

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Postby marcos » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:12 pm

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Postby Bandobras Took » Sat Apr 25, 2009 3:29 pm

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Postby Leon » Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:04 pm

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Postby BoderHamster » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:36 pm

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Postby Thorsten the Traveller » Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:08 pm

Stone-age did not end because man ran out of rocks.
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Postby BoderHamster » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:40 pm

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Postby Leon » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:23 am

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Postby Leon » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:20 pm

Marcos, I think you are right. For this reason, I have come up with a better text for Black Rider that does not make the existing obsolete:

Black Rider Virtual
Permanent event. If at least half the number of Ringwraiths in your Ringwraiths company (fractions rounded up) control a Black Horse, the company is in Black Rider mode and may move to non-darkhaven sites. Any number of otherwise playable Ringwraith followers may be played during your turn in addition to any other one character normally playable. Additionally, during your organization phase (or immediately after opponent plays a ring), you may place a Black Horse from your sideboard with this card. You may play such cards as if they were in your hand. You may start the game with this card in lieu of a minor item. [106 words]

They Ride Together Virtual (new version)
Permanent event. There is no limit to the size of your Ringwraith’s company. If you have at least six Ringwraiths, each controlling a Black Horse, in a company together you may move using region movement. Additionally, you may tap this card at the end of the company’s movement/hazard phase to allow them to move again to a site not in or adjacent to Gorgoroth; this card gives 1 marshalling point for every three Ringwraiths in the company when tapped. You may choose to leave this card tapped during untap phase. [91 words]

In this way you do require Black Horses to move. They Ride Together hugely increases your movement abilities if you build a large company with a load of Black Horses. If anyone can think of a way to put this down in fewer words, please tell me.

For completeness sake:

Heralded Lord Virtual
Permanent event. Place this card with your Ringwraith if he is in play. Your Ringwraith's company is in Heralded Lord mode and may move using starter movement. -2 prowess, +3 direct influence to entire company while not at a darkhaven. [40 words]
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Postby marcos » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:30 pm

is there any reason to still pick the old one over this? I'm just trying to figure any, but i can't, my mind is tired today :) ... anyone?
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Postby Leon » Mon Apr 27, 2009 4:57 pm

For the old Black Rider you do not need Black Horse. If you move with Black Horse and use cards to move again so you are never at the darkhaven during the organisation phase it is possible to play with the existing Black Rider. Forcing the use of Black Horse is a weakness in Black Rider Virtual as I propose it, that does not exist with the original Black Rider.

So this is a reason.

Similar to the cards we mentioned as examples in this discussion, I do indeed not expect people to use the original. If it is too strong you can alway remover the clause that says it can be used in lieu of a minor item.

I hope you are satisfied with this reasoning.
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