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Council of Elrond • View topic - Passive conditions/actions vs cards that produce 'effects'

Passive conditions/actions vs cards that produce 'effects'

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Passive conditions/actions vs cards that produce 'effects'

Postby Jambo » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:55 am

Last edited by Jambo on Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Passive conditions/actions vs cards that produce 'effect

Postby miguel » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:01 am

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Re: Passive conditions/actions vs cards that produce 'effect

Postby Jambo » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:13 pm

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Re: Passive conditions/actions vs cards that produce 'effect

Postby miguel » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:21 pm

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Postby Jambo » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:22 pm

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Re: Passive conditions/actions vs cards that produce 'effect

Postby miguel » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:40 pm

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Postby Konrad Klar » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:52 pm

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Re: Passive conditions/actions vs cards that produce 'effect

Postby Jambo » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:23 pm

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Postby Konrad Klar » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:05 pm

While long-events and many permanent-events itself does not have targets, action caused by that cards (triggered by passive condition) may have target.
It is clealrly visible in case of Ahunts (a company is target of attack).
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Postby Jambo » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:26 pm

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Postby Konrad Klar » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:42 pm

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Postby Jambo » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:04 pm

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Postby Konrad Klar » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:04 pm

Continuous effect is not the effect that can be applied to something. Some objects may be under such effect.
It would be better using word result if speaking about effect applied to the target (or some other object) and word effect if speaking about continuous effect.

I don't think that Fell Winter follow rules concerning passive conditions.
If it is discarded then its effects disappers. It does not leave any permanent results.

CRF says "are applied as a passive condition, once an attack of the right type is in play.".

OK. It does not say about attack of the right type directed against company (or something else). Just about attack of the right type.

An automatick-attack is still in play, as long like site card (and/or other cards) is in play. So if we take CRF entry as is, we have situation, where activator of action caused by passive condition (passive condition itself) is still in play. It "does not occur" unlike any other passive condition.
Further any other card like Redoubled Forces is automatically triggered.
When discarded, such card leaves its result and another copy may be played, and so on...

I believe that such interpretation cannot be accepted. I think that "attacks of the right type" mentioned by CRF entry are actually "attacks of the right type directed against target".
In such case, actions from cards like Redoubled Forces would not be activated until AA is faced. Declaration of attack is something what can be called as an event that occurs (like other known passive conditions).
And such interpretation allows for applying passive conditions rules to the AAs in unchanged, consistent way, without causing additional problems and strange situations.

EDIT:
Some language errors corrected (remains -> leaves).
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Postby Jambo » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:26 pm

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Postby Konrad Klar » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:51 pm

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