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Council of Elrond • View topic - Farmer Maggot vs. Assassin

Farmer Maggot vs. Assassin

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Farmer Maggot vs. Assassin

Postby zarathustra » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:25 pm

Last edited by zarathustra on Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby miguel » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:17 pm

I actually think that all those rulings are correct. Regarding Assassin, you key the creature to X. This will subsequently cause all the attacks to be keyed to X (which is proven by cards like In the Name of Mordor). Now I believe each of these attacks, when declared, will check if they are still good to go. So using Maggot on an Assassin would cancel the 1st attack, and then make the following attacks fail due to lost keyability.

[OT]Interestingly the keyability seems to affect strikes as well (Shadow-cloak). However, I believe changing site/region type between strike sequences would not make the remaining strikes fizzle, since strikes aren't declared and therefore they don't check "playability".[/OT]

The automatic-attack, once declared, perhaps doesn't have this issue. Similarly to a Dragon ahunt, the attack will remain even when the card creating it has been removed from the table. So an Unabated Barrow-wight would still come after Maggot's posse. :lol:
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Postby zarathustra » Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:31 pm

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Postby Konrad Klar » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:16 pm

Quoted MELE rule has character of rough, brief explanation.
It does not cover even such cases as creatures keyed to three or more region symbols.
"At least one of the region symbols on the creature’s card matches one of the region types the company moved through this turn (see below)" taken strictly would mean the creature with one wilderness symbol may be played during second M/H phase against company that does not move through wilderness if the company was moving through wilderness during its previous M/H phase this turn.

In whole chapter words "turn" and "m/h phase" are used interchangeably.
It may indicate the "creature card" and "attack" are used interchangeably too.
Roughly, imprecisely worded texts cannot be applicated strictly. That are just cases where rulings are necessary.
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Postby zarathustra » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:27 pm

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Postby Konrad Klar » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:38 pm

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Postby miguel » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:40 am

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Postby Wacho » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:08 pm

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Postby Konrad Klar » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:14 pm

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Postby Wacho » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:04 pm

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Postby Konrad Klar » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:49 pm

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Postby miguel » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:11 am

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Re: Farmer Maggot vs. Assassin

Postby Wacho » Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:07 pm

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Re: Farmer Maggot vs. Assassin

Postby miguel » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:25 am

Unlocked for further elaboration.

As far as "teleportation", yeah the ruling from digest #64 overturns the ruling from digest #6. So no maggot trickery with palantirs is allowed.

And regarding an unabated automatic-attack, the ruling from digest #58 partially overturns the ruling from digest #19. The problem with the original ruling is that the attack has already been declared, and it's not cancelled by maggot, therefore it needs to resolve. Just because the card that created the attack is no longer on the table, doesn't mean the attack fizzles once it has been declared (similarly with dragon ahunts).

An example of chain-o'-effects:

(i) an attack is declared, at this point you may MT the dragon ahunt and the attack will fizzledizzle as the attack's declaration has not resolved yet
(ii) the attack's declaration has resolved, now there is time for multiple chain of effects to do stuff that targets the attack, like cancel it
(iii) attack resolves

With an unabated automatic-attack, you can't use maggotman until (ii), and since the attack isn't cancelled, it sticks with the company.

Does this make sense? :)
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Re: Farmer Maggot vs. Assassin

Postby Konrad Klar » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:06 am

Sometimes an attack is canceled just because it cannot be continued, not because action "cancel" was invoked.
This may happen if defender is removed from play (due to failed cc, for example) in middle of resolving attack.
It would be difficult (if not nonsense) to demand continuing of such attack only because it cannot be canceled (go back to play and fight! This attack cannot be canceled... ).
Attacks that cannot be canceled are immune to action "cancel", not immune to inability of proceding the attack.

And now (if above is correct) only thing that must be established is whether:
a) actions "replace site" and "cancel" are separate actions,
b) only one action created by FM is "replace site" (and absence of defender at site where attack was initiated is reason for interrupting attack, as valid as absence of defender in play).
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