[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4772: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4774: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4775: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4776: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
Council of Elrond • View topic - Influence check vs. influence attempt (Flatter a Foe)

Influence check vs. influence attempt (Flatter a Foe)

The place where the NetRep and the rules wizards discuss upcoming rulings

Moderator: NetRep Team

Postby Manuel » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:06 pm

Manuel
Council Member
 
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:31 am

Postby Wacho » Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:17 am

I was taking another look at this the other day and I think Chad has this right. I think I can show why an influence attempt and influence check are not synonymous.

First, I think we need to take a look at these terms to understand their meaning not so much in a technical way but rather in a simple self-explanatory way.

The term influence check can be better understood if we compare it to other checks in MECCG. Along with influence checks there are also body checks and corruption checks. Each of these is a roll where the result is compared to the appropriate statistic. Body checks and corruption checks can occur in several different situations, and it stands to reason that influence checks are similar in this.

Influence attempt--I think this term can be better understood if we read it (and other such terms such as flattery attempt, offering attempt, etc.) as an "attempt to influence" instead. This I think makes it clear what is going on. You are trying to influence something. Normally this will include an influence check.

Ok, I know people will say that's nice theory but back it up with rules/card text. So here goes:

First, if we consider influence attempt and influence check to be the same that means that To Flatter a Foe is both an influence attempt and a flattery attempt. That doesn't really make much sense in my mind. Especially when I read these terms as an attempt to influence, or an attempt to flatter. Also, what does the flattery attempt mean in this case? It seems to have no effect.

Second, if influence attempt = influence check are the same then bringing Army of the Dead into play is not an influence attempt because there is no roll, no influence check. However, bringing a faction in play is clearly an influence attempt.

Third, compare the flattery attempt on To Flatter a Foe with the offering attempt of Token of Goodwill. Even though ToG is an offering attempt the character makes a corruption check. So it is not necessary that attempts and checks line up.

Finally, and I think this is the clincher, look at Foolish Words and The Riddle Game. Foolish words modifies "Any riddling roll, offering attempt, or influence attempt..." note how the term riddling roll is used rather than riddling attempt. At first this seeming mismatch in the language doesn't make much sense but when you look at The Riddle Game it becomes clear. The Riddle Game is a riddling attempt in which both players make riddling rolls. However, only the person playing the card is making a riddling attempt. Foolish Words will hurt either party to the Riddle Game. This shows that the rolls and attempts are not synonymous (also look at the card Wit).

To sum up attempts are actions that normally include some sort of roll or check. There are many different types of attempts. Flattery, Offering, Influence, Riddling, and Burglary are the ones I can think of. Checks are a specific type of roll that compare a roll with a specific characteristic. These include body checks, influence checks, and corruption checks.

A card that modifies the roll of an attempt will modify that check or roll no matter what type it is. A card that modifies a check or specific type of roll will modify any attempt which includes that type of check or roll, no matter what type of attempt it is.

I think this is the only way to make everything consistent.
Wacho
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:51 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Postby Wacho » Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:00 pm

Wacho
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:51 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Postby Konrad Klar » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:22 pm

...and don't forget Red Arrow.
We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
User avatar
Konrad Klar
 
Posts: 1612
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:35 am
Location: Wałbrzych, Poland

Postby miguel » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:49 am

User avatar
miguel
Council Member
 
Posts: 655
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:21 am

Postby zarathustra » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:56 pm

OK, I buy it. Now we need a new proposed ruling...
http://www.alfanos.org
zarathustra
Council Member
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:26 pm

Re: Influence check vs. influence attempt (Flatter a Foe)

Postby Wacho » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:16 am

Wacho
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:51 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Re:

Postby miguel » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:11 am

meccgnetrep (at) gmail (dot) com
User avatar
miguel
Council Member
 
Posts: 655
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:21 am

Re: Influence check vs. influence attempt (Flatter a Foe)

Postby Wacho » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:49 pm

Okay...looking back at ToG I think your intuition is correct. Still, I think my main point holds.
Wacho
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:51 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Re: Influence check vs. influence attempt (Flatter a Foe)

Postby miguel » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:01 am

meccgnetrep (at) gmail (dot) com
User avatar
miguel
Council Member
 
Posts: 655
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:21 am

Re: Influence check vs. influence attempt (Flatter a Foe)

Postby miguel » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:43 pm

Stickied so I remember to lock this after next digest... :lol:
meccgnetrep (at) gmail (dot) com
User avatar
miguel
Council Member
 
Posts: 655
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:21 am

Re: Influence check vs. influence attempt (Flatter a Foe)

Postby miguel » Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:24 am

Published in digest #122. Locked.
meccgnetrep (at) gmail (dot) com
User avatar
miguel
Council Member
 
Posts: 655
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:21 am

Previous

Return to NetRep Discussion Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron