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Council of Elrond • View topic - Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

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Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby miguel » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:44 pm

Is an imprisoned Ringwraith impossible to rescue if once freed he would be violating company composition rules?

So freeing effect is cancelled? What to do? :(
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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby marcos » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:33 pm

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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby Konrad Klar » Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:30 am

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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby miguel » Sun May 13, 2012 9:44 am

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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby Konrad Klar » Sun May 13, 2012 10:01 am

Rule quoted by you applies to the situation when controller leaves active play, but follower no. Imprisoning FW follower is not such situation.
Rules says that RW follower must always be under control of RW, like ally. For ally it is explicity stated that ally cannot be imprisoned, for RW follower no.
I think that similar rule may be implied from fact that RW follower must be always under control of RW (and from existence of exception, governed by rule quoted by you).
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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby miguel » Sun May 13, 2012 10:40 am

So you think a RW follower cannot be taken prisoner?
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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby Konrad Klar » Sun May 13, 2012 10:49 am

Yes.
He has a limitation similar to limitation of ally. And rule that says that ally cannot be imprisoned did not come along the concept of imprisoning attacks.
It was introduced later, whe ICE realised that there is an issue.
I think that it is the same logic in both situations. Nothing brand new.
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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby marcos » Sun May 13, 2012 5:19 pm

I think RW followers indeed can be taken prisoners. They are still characters, why should they be treated different?
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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby Konrad Klar » Sun May 13, 2012 6:15 pm

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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby miguel » Sun May 13, 2012 6:26 pm

I think RW followers never take up any GI, not even during the situation described in the CRF entry I quoted, simply because they have no mind-stat.
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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby Konrad Klar » Sun May 13, 2012 7:25 pm

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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby Konrad Klar » Sun May 13, 2012 7:33 pm

Strictly speaking it prevent even Wizard from being rescued. :shock:

And now this is a valid reason for revision of this rule.

This render all I said before in this topic useless.
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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby marcos » Sun May 13, 2012 11:55 pm

ok that makes some more sense. And I agree that is a valid reason for revisiting.
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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby miguel » Mon May 14, 2012 9:59 am

The CRF entry I quoted proves that RW followers can be in play without the (avatar) RW controlling them. And they would not take up any GI because they have no mind (they take up one DI from controlling RW because of the rules, you might say the avatar RW's will is what keeps the follower momentarily still in play). I don't see why the same approach could not be applied to a RW follower taken prisoner.

RW followers are not allies, I see no support in the rules why they could not be taken prisoner. Allies can't exist without a controlling character, RW followers clearly can (CRF), even if only in a limited manner.

The Dark Minions quote seems weird, but it should be read in the manner it's been read this far. The part about released characters joining the company under general influence applies only to characters that can be controlled with GI.

I feel like this subject is being made more complex than it really needs to be.
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Re: Imprisoned RW vs. Rescuers

Postby Konrad Klar » Mon May 14, 2012 10:27 am

If quoted DM rule will not be revised, then in its current state there is no way for successful rescuing Ringwraith.

Imprisoned RW follower is in state where he is not controlled by RW. Ringwraith or Wizard is not controlled by GI, but if rescued must by placed under GI.

Either: revise/modify rules, or leave it in current state, that force players to break them in some aspects, or prevent from rescuing Wizard, if they want to respect rules strictly.

Players are lawyers. They can (and want to) leverage any nuanse for their advantage, or disadvantage of opponents.
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