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Council of Elrond • View topic - Draft of Digest #124

Draft of Digest #124

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Draft of Digest #124

Postby miguel » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:20 pm

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Re: Draft of Digest #124

Postby marcos » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:45 pm

looks ok
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Re: Draft of Digest #124

Postby Konrad Klar » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:33 pm

Not sure about 2). The part "but they will not help to gain the marshalling point from Armory" is particulary doubtful. Perhaps reason for this ruling was that minion item cannot be condtion for hero resource, but Armory does not have any active conditions. It only causes effects if certain conditions are met.
BTW. The same for Fate of The Ithil Stone, and Into The Smoking Cone.

5). Or "If a freed Ringwaith violates the company composition rules, he is not freed".
After all character played as effect of We Have Come To Kill is not discarded in similar situaton. He is just not played.

8). No. I do not see any justification.

10). "Even though Greed does not create action caused by passive condition, its effect is treated as such for the purposes of timing."
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Re: Draft of Digest #124

Postby Konrad Klar » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:00 pm

Update:
2) The same also for A More Evil Hour. It is tapped if opponents plays hero item worth 3 or more MP for him. Right?
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Re: Draft of Digest #124

Postby miguel » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:38 pm

re: 2) Ok I will leave this out of the next digest so we can discuss it further. What exactly does "condition" mean etc.

re: 5) That's certainly the other way to go, and I thought about it... Gotta run now but I'll be back lol

re: 8 ) The justification is that otherwise a company could end up without a site card, lost in limbo. I am taking this strict interpretation so that you can't play a resource with Crown of Flowers unless that card has an effect because it was played with CoF (otherwise it would have been played with CoF for no effect and would be deemed illegal).

re: 10) I think my version is fine and easier to understand. What I'm saying is that Greed's effect (item gets played --> cc) is treated as a passive condition, meaning the cc will become the first action in the next chain of effects when an item gets played.
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Re: Draft of Digest #124

Postby marcos » Sat Feb 25, 2012 4:42 pm

I'd stay with mikko's proposal for prisoner RWs, otherwise it is impossible to rescue them. If it is discarded you can just play him again i suppose...
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Re: Draft of Digest #124

Postby Konrad Klar » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:09 pm

8) But hey. Now it only allows for cards that have different effect/are playable only if Gates of Morning is in play.
If problem is interaction with Refuge and Wondrous Maps why do not make ruling for these card?
I think that similar issue was overseen by ICE in case of cards like Hidden Haven, and was resolved easly by adding phrase "Discard this card when the site is discarded or returned to its location deck. It cannot be discarded otherwise."
It could be for Refuge and Wondrous Maps for example:
"Discard this card only when the site card that it substitutes would be discarded or returned to its location deck. It cannot be discarded otherwise."
(site cards are discarded only when no company stays at or moves to/from the site).
It direcly addresses issue without side (and somehow harmful) effects.

5) Ok. It may be special case. Maybe it is issue overlooked by ICE so overlooked was problem of Refuge and Wondrous Maps in conjunction with Crown of Flowers (or potentialy other effect that would discard the cards in abnormal way).
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Re: Draft of Digest #124

Postby miguel » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:06 am

re: 8 ) Yes that's exactly what I was thinking, you would not be able to use Crown of Flowers unless it actually affects what the resource played with it does. I think this was the original intent for CoF and the fact you could lose the resource (by someone Twilighting CoF) is supposed to be a drawback. Konrad's errata proposal would now be doable via CoE's errata team, but not by us here. And I would really like to avoid errata / new rules when we can make a ruling that solves the issue at hand. However I see the fact that CoF has a potential effect (of removing the resource) as an issue, so I will remove this ruling for further discussion in its own thread.

re: 5) I agree that strictly from rules point of view, the RW probably would not get released. I was looking at the rules to find where I got in my head that discarding would be a viable option, but couldn't find it, so I will remove this from the digest as well, along with 2) and 8 ) and we can discuss them a bit in more detail (after Lure). :)

re: 10) I made a new proposal in Greed's own thread: Even though the corruption checks from Greed are not triggered by a passive condition, they are treated that way for the purposes of timing.
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Re: Draft of Digest #124

Postby miguel » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:18 am

Updated OP to reflect my post above.
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Re: Draft of Digest #124

Postby Konrad Klar » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:18 am

I do not have further objections.
My blessing for rest of rulings. :)
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Re: Draft of Digest #124

Postby Konrad Klar » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:32 am

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Re: Draft of Digest #124

Postby miguel » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:25 am

True, added to the OP! :)
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Re: Draft of Digest #124

Postby miguel » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:22 pm

Published, locked.
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