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Council of Elrond • View topic - Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

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Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby miguel » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:57 am

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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby Sauron » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:42 pm

An attack has to be the 1st thing in a chain, you can't have an attack spawn an attack can you? You can't chain them like that no?
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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby Wacho » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:29 am

I think Troll-Purse interrupts the normal play of your 2nd item. As stated this happens immediately after the first chain is resolved. The attack happens and then if the resource player still has an untapped character he can tap to play his additional item. Since he hasn't chosen to do anything in between the play of the 1st item and 2nd (he was attacked, but that was not initiated by him) the limitation that the play of the 2nd item be directly after the first is still satisfied in my opinion. If he does play an additional item then of course troll-purse gets activated again.
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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby Konrad Klar » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:02 am

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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby miguel » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:49 am

So, are you saying in the Troll Purse example the resource player would need to completely resolve its attack (play appropriate resources etc.), finishing that chain of effects before being able to play the free minor item? Or does he have a choice how to handle the timing?
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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby Konrad Klar » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:07 pm

First. It is nowhere stated in rules that immediately means "in the same chain of effects".
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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby miguel » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:16 pm

True, but it's not stated that playing an item must start a chain of effects either, right? I mean, couldn't the resource player then opt to play his free item in response to the attack from Purse (in order to avoid getting all tapped out before he can play the freebie)?
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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby Konrad Klar » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:28 pm

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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby miguel » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:06 pm

Sorry, I don't quite follow. Here's how I see it going down, from OP:

<start chain 1>
(i) character taps to play greater item and that item is placed with the character
(ii) on-guard is revealed and is considered declared and resolved prior to chain 1, Troll-purse triggers
<nothing more is declared, chain 1 starts resolving>
(ii) greater item is succesfully played: site taps
<end chain 1>

<start chain 2>
(i) attack from Troll-purse gets declared
...

The first item is succesfully played now, is it not? So what's stopping me from playing the free minor item in the next chain of effects? (The roll for Ithil-stone would have happened in chain 1.)
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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby Konrad Klar » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:15 pm

Nothing may stop you from playing second item in response to Trolls attack.
According to my current knowledge.

Sorry. I have misread your previous question (I've misread as: second item in response to first item).
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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby miguel » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:32 pm

Right. And according to your previous examples, it should not be mandatory for the resource player to play his free minor item in the same chain that the attack from Troll Purse gets declared/resolved. He can choose to do so, or to wait until the attack has been faced, then play the free item in chain 3 (before doing anything else). Correct? :)
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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby Konrad Klar » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:35 pm

Yes.
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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby miguel » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:41 pm

Beautiful.

Marcos: Anything add? Does this sound good?
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Re: Troll Purse / Free Minor Item Timing

Postby marcos » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:54 pm

considering that chain 3 is still "immediately" after playing the first item (and resolving all the other "immediately" effects), then yes, that should be correct :P

I still find messy the different leves of immediately though...
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