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Council of Elrond • View topic - raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

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raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby marcos » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:44 pm

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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby miguel » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:21 am

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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby Sauron » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:46 pm

I always thought the need not tap meant he had to be untapped, but didn't need to tap. So he could play it and remain untapped.
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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby miguel » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:24 pm

Yes I understand and probably most people see it that way, possibly due to the issue regarding tapped sites vs. resources that do not tap the site (they still require an untapped site unless otherwise specified), or due to the METW/MELE rulebook entry. But as I have shown above, IMO requiring an untapped site is a poor analogy for requiring an untapped character, and I think the newer rulebook entries support my theory.
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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby Jambo » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:03 pm

I believe Rad needs to be untapped to play this.
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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby miguel » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:51 pm

Ok, but based on what? I mean, what do you think about my posts above is faulty?
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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby Jambo » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:57 pm

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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby miguel » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:26 am

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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby Jambo » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:44 pm

There's so much in MeCCG that could be argued one way or another. RW followers as an example of something that never got resolved despite good logic. Thrall of the Voice vs Bad Company. In the Heart of His Realm...
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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby Konrad Klar » Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:24 pm

We will not speak of such things even in the morning of the Shire.
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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby miguel » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:40 am

Are you saying that regarding Memories Recalled, the company would need an actual Lost Knowledge card for it to follow the logic of the ruling regarding Black Bird? If so, I don't really agree, because the ruling about Black Bird is based only on the quote from Starter Rules that state an untapped character is required for playing an ally. It is not making a general statement about pre-requirements.
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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby Konrad Klar » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:05 pm

I see the quote from Starter Rules that state an untapped character is required for playing an ally as pre-requirement to actual condition, not as actual condition.
This is quite easy: it cannot be required from character to be untapped and tapping it at the same time. The both requirements preclude each other. First is pre-requirement for second.

I agree with your statement regarding Memories Recalled.

If condition (discarding Lost Knowledge) does not need be fulfilled, its pre-requirement is not required too.
I think that the same logic applies to the Radagast and Radagast's Black Bird.
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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby miguel » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:10 pm

Yes! Finally someone agrees that Raddy can play his Birdie while tapped. :wink:

I will unsticky for further discussion and maybe a new (gasp) proposed ruling... :lol:

Marcos: Any thoughts on this?
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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby marcos » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:16 pm

sounds pretty logic to me. If you don't have to pay the cost of tapping a character then having it untapped shouldn't matter. It's a card without a cost.
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Re: raddy's black bird vs tapped radagast

Postby miguel » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:17 pm

Image

:o
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